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Author Topic: Fantasy sub section query  (Read 347 times)

conjunctio

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Fantasy sub section query
« on: June 03, 2020, 02:42:53 PM »
Hello to all and the moderator...

I'm new to the site and MeG. In fact I am waiting on my compendium rules copy as I write. But in preparing to launch myself into a new set of wargames rules I am trawling through the various areas of the supporting website.

More particularly I am taking up MeG (instead of DBM) for my Tolkien-themed interest at 15mm scale so I was pleased to see a section dedicated in the army lists to that end.

This brings me to my post/enquiry...
I wonder if it might be possible to have a specific sub-forum for Fantasy-based MeG? I appreciate this might be especially niche and not much call for it but in the long term it could be useful to help access this more specific area of interest rather than 'fantasy' becoming buried in the historical threads...

Thanks for considering.

Matt

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Re: Fantasy sub section query
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2020, 05:53:31 PM »

conjunctio

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Re: Fantasy sub section query
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2020, 08:44:39 PM »
Excellent... I came across the website waves from the Facebook site 'Wargaming in Middle Earth' having asked about MeG rules. So I've now bought a copy and when it arrives will try to get to playing a battle...

Lanceflint

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Re: Fantasy sub section query
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2020, 05:10:29 PM »
Hi there,
I am also keen to fight some Tolkien style encounters.
As a quite experienced player i am very willing to help you with troop classifications and such like. There is plenty of support on the forum for general rules questions for new players and old alike.
Regards, Lance.

conjunctio

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Re: Fantasy sub section query
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2020, 10:41:55 AM »
Nice One - Thanks Lance.
I'm due to take delivery of my compendium copy of MeG in next few days.

My army list reference for DBMM had been Thane Maxwell's excellent and well-researched army lists from 1st - 3rd Age. All the armies I have are based up accordingly. 40mm fronts and 15-40mm depth, Dragons and Mumakil double based depth.

When the rules arrive I will be looking for equivalence between Inferior, Ordinary, Superior, Fast, Exception grades to convert to MeG and the Regular or Irregular classification (presumably drilled or undrilled). Hopefully that will simulate some similar battlefield behaviour and give the different armies their particular characteristics.

So, the best Orc troops in DBMM are listed as Irreg Blade Fast.

But there are some elements that are difficult to classify based on how they fight by Tolkien - most notably wargs/warg riders. Fight as if LH v Mounted, as if Wb v foot and train, and as cavalry v shooting. Quick kill Pk, Sp, Bd, Ps and Kn. Quick killed by Bw or Ps in base contact.

Dragons, Mumak, Balrogs, Trolls were given their own class of Behemoth ad with range fire for fire breath/shock and awe.

Magic was subsumed into command influence and pip transfers and the ability to command more units.

Lanceflint

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Re: Fantasy sub section query
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2020, 11:14:00 AM »
Hi,
Yes vaguely familiar with older DB style classifications. I think that you will find Meg has many more permutations to offer, although sometimes they are quite subtle.
Will look up the TM work, sounds interesting.
Lance.

conjunctio

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Re: Fantasy sub section query
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2020, 08:32:22 PM »
Lance...
There is also the Luke Ueda Sarson army lists and specific scenario battles

(I'm cross posting this to the fantasy section of the MeG forum to keep things about MeG fantasy there).

Matt

AntiokosIII

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Fantasy Rohirrim List
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2020, 12:41:45 AM »
This has been bugging me ever since I first read the LOTR Fantasy section. I first read the LOTR trilogy (or as I think of it, the Holy Writ) at about age 13. It has had an enormous impact on the rest of my life, and I have re-read it every few years for the last 50 years.
For the most part, I like the Meg lists for WOTR very much. Even in those spots where I would have done them differently, one can easily see what the author was thinking, and I respect the choices made. The decision, for example, to class Wargs as camels was extremely clever.
The one exception, the one part that bugs me no end, is the way the Riders of Rohan are handled. It looks to me as if Simon read that Tolkien modeled the language and culture of the Rohirrim after the Goths of late antiquity, and gave them a suitably Goth-similar fighting style; heavy horse archers able to charge home effectively when the moment was right. Try as I might, I cannot see the men of the Riddermark fighting in such a style.
I do recall one reference to a Rider armed with a bow (Widfala by name, IIRC). I do not recall a description of the Riders being all bow armed, or even mostly bow armed. In the Holy Writ, they shoot only when dismounted, and only some shoot then (ie at Helm’s Deep). I Know of no reference to Riders shooting from horseback in battle. It’s true that the Uru Hai fear being shot at by Rohirrim bowmen, but when the battle comes, the Riders charge home with spear in hand.
The main thing that bothers me is the classification as ‘short spear’. Since the text describes them as charging ‘with long spears and bitter’ (at the Pellenor Fields) I assume this means that while they actually used longer spears or lances, they don’t get ‘lance’ because they were mainly shooters and not very good at charging home. I beg to differ. When mounted, the lance charge was the main, if not only, tactic of the RIders. If they couldn’t charge mounted, they dismounted and fought on foot (Helm’s Deep, the Black Gate, the island battle against the Uru Hai).
I also am bothered by making ANY of them ‘drilled’. The Eoreds were each raised locally, and were basically farmers and herders who were frequently called on to fight. I think they maneuver and follow orders too well to be ‘tribal’, but I can’t see them better than ‘formed’. I have not trouble with the quality grading, which seems reasonable to me.
If I were re-writing this list, I would grade the Rohirrim as Cavalry, protected, formed Loose, average, CL, DC, ME. I would permit the King’s Eored to be Exceptional (perhaps a bit generous) and each Marshal’s Eored to be upgraded to Superior. The Riders  could be re-graded (up to 1/2) as Infantry, formed close, SS, shieldwall, integral archers as Riders without horses.
Just my $.02. If I ever paint up armies and run a LOTR campaign, that’s how I’ll grade them, YMMV
Although personally, I’d grade Trolls from Mordor as Elephants with shove and counting as heavily armored. Just me.
Boy, this is fun stuff. Thanks, Simon!
Miniature Wargaming is the only completely honorable form of warfare ever invented by man.

conjunctio

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Re: Fantasy sub section query
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2020, 09:21:02 AM »
Antiokos III

Interested to see your suggestions for Rohan. They match with my own ideas and if memory serves there is a description of feigned retreat in the Unfinished Tales account of the Battle at the Ford of Isen.

There is now a specific Fantasy Section in the forums and one thread related to Tolkien army list ideas/discussion... Do you want to cross post your ideas for the Rohan there where it won't get buried? I intend to experiment with LotR army lists shortly and will probably start with Simon's Lidless Eye work

Thanks,

Matt

RocketSix

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Re: Fantasy sub section query
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2020, 11:53:15 AM »
There is no reason why the LE lists cannot be changed. It was just my view on it all. The Rohan classification had an element of crossover to allow the Battles in Middle Earth players to cross over without too much change in battlefield function.

Lets try keep all the lists in the same place though!

thanks
Simon

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Re: Fantasy sub section query
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2020, 02:25:55 PM »
Just go to the fantasy section and we can kick it around.

S
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Dru

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Re: Fantasy sub section query
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2020, 03:48:55 AM »
Glad this got kicked off. Now to find some LOTR 6mm figures (I have tons of 28mm though...).
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