Later Foederate Roman in Gaul

[nikgaukroger]

Richard is going to hate me, however ...

As I am going to be doing this army with the upcoming PSC plastic figure I have been doing some reading up on it. Previously my interest in this period of Roman history has really been focused on the east and not the west. With grim inevitability I have some disagreements with the current list. Although I think it is probably OK for the remnant Roman army in Italy and Dalmatia (apart from I am doubtful about the total number of Flexible horse archers allowed - I'd go for a maximum of 12 between the armoured horse archers and the Huns) I think it doesn't work for the remnant army in Gaul.

Therefore, here is the inevitable alternative suggestion.



The significant difference are that I see the army has having few Roman cavalry, with foederates being the mainstay in this area. The best cavalry would be a major warlord's Bucellarii (alternatively you could call it a comitatus) which may include significant numbers of Huns still - but these would be the only armoured horse archers available. Mercenary Huns do not appear to have been available this far west. Allies change slightly - the Goths appear to have been continually antagonistic to the remnant Romans in Gaul in the period so are not allowed and the Saxon ally in the published list is better represented by a foederate infantry unit as they were more mercenaries than allies.

The main sources I've used for this are: Guy Halsall's "Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West", articles in Drinkwater & Elton's "Fifth-Century Gaul: A Crisis of Identity" and Ian Hughes' "Patricians and Emperors".

[Robin]

Excellent, will it not have to wait 5 years before being sorted ?

[nikgaukroger]

Richard has mentioned a review for 2021 although I'd expect that in the main that will be tidying up errata and the occasional omission/error sorted out. That said, this would be an additional new list rather than a complete replacement as the existing one is still (probably) OK for Italy and Dalmatia as mentioned above.

[badhabum]

Please enough is enough ! Stability please .

[nikgaukroger]

As I said I don't think there are plans to revise the existing lists other than any necessary errata and occasional omission - and that is sensible.

No reason though, IMO, that new lists cannot be added.

[badhabum]

600 + list and a great wave of stability needed is reason enough . Not everybody will download the lists and check everyday if something new has been added .

[nikgaukroger]

Be sensible and apply a bit of reality here.

Richard doesn't just add new lists willy-nilly just because I pop a new list suggestion up even where he agrees the list should be included. Just look at the lists I suggested last year and when they actually made it into the books 

[Gower]

Surely a new list is an addition and not a change. If I recall correctly WRG 5th list had the whole of Chinese miltray histroy covered by a single list.

[accard]

Please enough is enough ! Stability please .

That's what the Later Foederate Romans probably believed.

[nikgaukroger]

As I am going to be doing this army with the upcoming PSC plastic figure I have been doing some reading up on it. Previously my interest in this period of Roman history has really been focused on the east and not the west. With grim inevitability I have some disagreements with the current list. Although I think it is probably OK for the remnant Roman army in Italy and Dalmatia (apart from I am doubtful about the total number of Flexible horse archers allowed - I'd go for a maximum of 12 between the armoured horse archers and the Huns) I think it doesn't work for the remnant army in Gaul.

To which I will add a passing note that after the end of Majorian's failed campaign to go to Africa there are no Roman armies operating in Spain so there should be no Later Foederate list covering Spain. FWIW even in the period covered by the Foederate list Roman military operations were patchy in Spain with long periods with no army there.

[jwb14feb]

Interesting read.  I, too, have bee reading about this time. Find attached some articles.  Best wishes. 

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[nikgaukroger]

Cheers. Have the first but not the second so will give it a read.

You can get the Kulikowski thesis The End of Roman Spain here - https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/handle/1807/12164 - interesting read.

[nikgaukroger]

I've been wondering about the best name for this list as well - as you do. I'd be tempted to call it something like Post Imperial Gallo-Roman.

I've also been pondering the Foederate list and whether that could do with some tweaks after the loss of Africa to the Empire and the ensuing bankruptcy - you only have to look at what Aetius had to cobble together to fight Atilla to see things were not good.

[jwb14feb]

More reading (am not sure if complete files made it last time)  Cheers.


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[nikgaukroger]

Thanks 

The book that comes from would be nice to have, however, it is only available at stupid prices