Lusitanian and the like ( most american armies )

[LawrenceG]

Ok, so Lusitanians can beat an army of short spear or dev charge, nothing in melee, infantry.
What can they beat?

If the Lusitanians get a lot of terrain versus a mounted army, isn't it just a Mexican standoff, so no-one gets any points?

We have "always invade" armies. Are there any "always defend" armies?

[tarnowski1]

I'm with Nik, the classification works. Plutarch on Sertorius war in Spain against Sulla's forces

'He [Metellus] was accustomed to regular warfare with heavy infantry. He liked to command a solid, ponderous bloc of infantry. This formation was superbly trained to push back and vanquish the enemy in combat at close quarters. For constantly chasing men who floated like the wind over mountains he had to climb, for enduring – as their enemy did – constant hunger without either tent or campfire, his army was useless. The light armour and consequent agility of his Iberian warriors meant Sertorius was constantly shifting the focus and changing the situation, until Metellus was at his wits' end.'

Its talking about the Lusitanian forces of Sertorius. Its rather notable that all the Roman authors that have commented on the period are quite distinct in Heavy infantry, Roman trained locals or Roman Legions and that of the lighter native infantry. A flexible rating erodes that distinction.

I'd suggest its a General problem not a troop problem (tongue in cheek, not meant seriously) as I rather rate the list.

Though on Aztec and similar 'American' lists I think there is an argument for flexible foot, an amendment I keep putting down and and never finishing for RJC to consider.

[nikgaukroger]

Are there any "always defend" armies?

Order of St. John if they take militia.

[Manzikert]

I feel like there's a disconnect here.
Contribution to break point isn't scored by a UG's points cost in MeG; a TuG is a Tug for break point purposes, no matter what you paid for it.

Unless the Lucitanian player has more TuGs than their opponent (remember, Caetrati and other SUGs don't count), only half of their adversary's TuGs need to break one Iberian TuG to break the Lucitanian army.

That's true to a large extent, if an army half your size can kill 1 TuG each, you lose. But a lot is going to depend on specific army compositions. But I shouldn't have used the word 'kill', it would be more accurate to say 'engage and defeat'. For every cav TuG he has you'll have 2 infantry TuGs that can mutually support each other.

Ok, so Lusitanians can beat an army of short spear or dev charge, nothing in melee, infantry.
What can they beat?

If by 'beat' you mean what is the scissors to their rock then I don't think they have one. They don't really counter any other army. But that's a far cry from being worthless. I'd favor them over a long spear or polearm army. Against another melee based infantry army they're probably going to have a significant numbers advantage (most armies don't have access to 108 melee experts). Against mixed armies they need to play to their strength in large numbers of competent fighters while mitigating their weakness is charge combat.

[nikgaukroger]

Definitely an army where you need to put in more thinking than many others and be a bit inventive.

[LawrenceG]

Ok, so Lusitanians can beat an army of short spear or dev charge, nothing in melee, infantry.
What can they beat?

If by 'beat' you mean what is the scissors to their rock then I don't think they have one. They don't really counter any other army. But that's a far cry from being worthless. I'd favor them over a long spear or polearm army. Against another melee based infantry army they're probably going to have a significant numbers advantage (most armies don't have access to 108 melee experts). Against mixed armies they need to play to their strength in large numbers of competent fighters while mitigating their weakness is charge combat.

No, I meant what can an army of short spear or dev charge, nothing in melee, infantry beat. We've established that Lusitanians can beat short spear or dev charge, nothing in melee, infantry with ease.

[LawrenceG]

That's true to a large extent, if an army half your size can kill 1 TuG each, you lose. But a lot is going to depend on specific army compositions. But I shouldn't have used the word 'kill', it would be more accurate to say 'engage and defeat'. For every cav TuG he has you'll have 2 infantry TuGs that can mutually support each other.

Not so easy for infantry TUGs to mutually support each other if the cavalry forms a solid line to prevent ganging up.

[Manzikert]

Ok, so Lusitanians can beat an army of short spear or dev charge, nothing in melee, infantry.
What can they beat?

If by 'beat' you mean what is the scissors to their rock then I don't think they have one. They don't really counter any other army. But that's a far cry from being worthless. I'd favor them over a long spear or polearm army. Against another melee based infantry army they're probably going to have a significant numbers advantage (most armies don't have access to 108 melee experts). Against mixed armies they need to play to their strength in large numbers of competent fighters while mitigating their weakness is charge combat.

No, I meant what can an army of short spear or dev charge, nothing in melee, infantry beat. We've established that Lusitanians can beat short spear or dev charge, nothing in melee, infantry with ease.

Nothing. Those armies are bad. I recently ran some math out of curiosity; and if you want to EXPECT to win a fight based purely on charge claims (where you're going to be down just 1 melee claim) you have to be up by 4+ in the charge! Armies bases purely on the charge don't work.

That's true to a large extent, if an army half your size can kill 1 TuG each, you lose. But a lot is going to depend on specific army compositions. But I shouldn't have used the word 'kill', it would be more accurate to say 'engage and defeat'. For every cav TuG he has you'll have 2 infantry TuGs that can mutually support each other.

Not so easy for infantry TUGs to mutually support each other if the cavalry forms a solid line to prevent ganging up.

Deploy 2 wide and 3 deep. Then the cav has no choice but to either charge 1.5 TuGs each. At that still leaves their flanks open to envelopment.