Converted Charge Question

[Ludwig]

The Norther California group had a one-day MEG tournament and one of the players asked for a Forum interpretation as follows:

A unit of elephants charged 2 units of bow armed Flexable Cavalry that were in loose formation.
Both flexible cavalry units skirmished away. Both Cavalry units shot at the elephants. The unit of elephants used a card to push through fire.
One of the evading units rolled down and was contacted by the charging elephants and broken in the Charge phase.
The broken unit had elements that fled away from the initial fight and were perused by the Elephants that converted into
the 2nd unit of Flexable Cavalry that was also in loose formation.
Obviously no additional bow fire was allowed.
The player owning the cavalry took the position that even though the 2nd cavalry unit had already skirmished away that it could evade/skirmish away a 2nd time.
The group consensus was that a 2nd evade/skirmish away in the same phase is not allowed and that the elephants would fight the 2nd cavalry unit during the following mele phase.
Please advise if we missed something or as per the above did something incorrectly.
Thanks

[lionheartrjc]

As far as I am aware, there is nothing in the rules which prevents an UG evading for the second time in these circumstances.  There is a restriction on the number of prompted actions that a player may make but no restriction that prevents the UG evading the charge pursuit.

Indeed 8.D:9 (page 106) of the PDF edition or 9.7:C.8 (page 167) in the Compendium Edition makes it clear that the UG can evade but may not shoot.

Richard

[nikgaukroger]

Agreed.

I'd also note that if the second unit was caught by the pursuit in the Charge Phase, then there is another Charge combat fought in the Charge Phase - you do not wait until the Fighting Phase.

[Ludwig]

How does the 2nd evading unit evade for the 2nd time. Does the owning player role a 6 sided die a 2nd time to determine the evading distance as was the case during the 1st evade move?
And if the charging unit (in this case elephants with shove) started their charge within 1 base width of the evading cavalry during the initial charge  (thus the elephant unit was NOT prompted), does that mean that the player owning the charging unit can make a 2nd charge unprompted if it ends its pursuit within 1 base width of the unit that has evaded a 2nd time OR since the charging unit did NOT take a prompted action at any point (No cards were used) can the charging unit prompt a charge into the unit that has evaded a 2nd time since that would be the FIRST time the charging unit was prompted.
It's convoluted But if the rules do NOT prohibit the above one can see how this could go on and on and on.
Thanks for your interpretation of the above.

[steads]

A forced charge (within 1BW in your example) is still a prompted action. Prompted does not necessarily mean "PLAYED A CARD"

[lionheartrjc]

How does the 2nd evading unit evade for the 2nd time. Does the owning player role a 6 sided die a 2nd time to determine the evading distance as was the case during the 1st evade move?

Yes, same procedure as for any other evade.

[lionheartrjc]

And if the charging unit (in this case elephants with shove) started their charge within 1 base width of the evading cavalry during the initial charge  (thus the elephant unit was NOT prompted), does that mean that the player owning the charging unit can make a 2nd charge unprompted if it ends its pursuit within 1 base width of the unit that has evaded a 2nd time OR since the charging unit did NOT take a prompted action at any point (No cards were used) can the charging unit prompt a charge into the unit that has evaded a 2nd time since that would be the FIRST time the charging unit was prompted.
It's convoluted But if the rules do NOT prohibit the above one can see how this could go on and on and on.
Thanks for your interpretation of the above.

I think you are missing the point here.  The only reason the UG might evade twice is because it would be contacted by a pursuer.  No cards are involved.

Richard

[Jilu]

And if the charging unit (in this case elephants with shove) started their charge within 1 base width of the evading cavalry during the initial charge  (thus the elephant unit was NOT prompted), does that mean that the player owning the charging unit can make a 2nd charge unprompted if it ends its pursuit within 1 base width of the unit that has evaded a 2nd time OR since the charging unit did NOT take a prompted action at any point (No cards were used) can the charging unit prompt a charge into the unit that has evaded a 2nd time since that would be the FIRST time the charging unit was prompted.
It's convoluted But if the rules do NOT prohibit the above one can see how this could go on and on and on.
Thanks for your interpretation of the above.

Well it is convoluted as the example does not follow the turn sequence,it is  not possible to declare charges after the charge reactions.

[nikgaukroger]

Indeed, I think Ludwig is confusing themselves by talking about charges and declarations.

Charges are only ever declared in sub-phase 2.2 of the Charge Phase, with any non-declared/held Forced Charges marked in sub-phase 2.3.

If an UG breaks its opponent(s) in the combat sub-phase of the Charge Phase and their pursuit contacts another enemy UG (which does not/cannot skirmish/run-away to avoid this) then another charge combat takes place in the same Charge Phase. If a pursuit does not contact a new enemy UG then there is no combat - there is no provision for charges, prompted or forced, at this stage of the Charge Phase.

Should a 2nd combat occur and an UG breaks any subsequent pursuit is dealt with in the same way and can result in a further combat (and skirmish/run-away responses) in the same Charge Phase. There is no actual limit as to how many times this can happen; the most I have managed is an initial charge and 2 subsequent combats resulting from pursuits that contacted fresh enemy - the first charge was a flank charge and I then went down the line in the pursuits.