Prompted Charge against prompted Charge: 2 questions

[KaiserFranz]

* 2 of my UGs with “Charging Lancers” are positioned against a single enemy UG.
* I prompted a Charge on my 2 UGs against that single enemy UG.
* This did cost me 2 coloured Cards since it was a Block Move.
* The enemy UG prompted a Charge on one of my UGs destined to charge it.
* Since I’m not the Active Player unfortunately my UG was charged by the enemy UG BEFORE I could perform my own charge against it.

Q1) Are my 2 spent Cards wasted?

I asked a similar question before and the answers were:
https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3411.0
"Your own charge is cancelled as soon as you are contacted by the enemy charge."
"c) No you cannot charge your original target, if you are contacted by a charge."

So I think the 2 Cards are wasted – correct?


Q2) I don’t get the “General Claim” “Cv, Cm, Ch, or El vs. foot not standing to receive” and the “Preferred Claim” “Charging Lancer* (S)” since I didn’t perform a Charge – correct?

Greets Franz

[nikgaukroger]

I'll answer your second question first, it may well affect how you view whether using cards to prompt the charge was wasting them 

If the enemy UG that charges you is infantry then you will get the claim for them not standing to receive a charge by Cv, etc. - check the glossary definition of "Standing to receive" which defines it as not having declared a charge, etc.

You will get the Charging Lancer claim. You do not have to have declared a charge or made a charge move to get the CL claim - it is the same for Devastating Chargers BTW. The classification is just a descriptive one. See page 67 6 E 4. If you are Charging Lancers you will get the claim regardless (unless against standing Pk, etc. of course).

Also, I would always avoid using "cancelled" in relation to charges; whilst a charge may not actually move there is no actual concept of it being cancelled.

[KaiserFranz]

Thx nikgaukroger, this helped a lot.

"You do not have to have declared a charge or made a charge move to get the CL claim - it is the same for Devastating Chargers"

That suprised me a little bit but is perfectly understandable.
So I wasted my 2 Cards

Greets Franz

[nikgaukroger]

It may have been better just to call the classification "Lancers" to avoid a bit of confusion.

[Jethreal]

So I wasted my 2 Cards

Greets Franz

Not really but sort of, once you declared the charge it was really your opponent who wasted his, as he also had to pay for the charge but paid after you had already done so. 

Table position might be a factor in doing so I suppose (if he was trying to prevent you breaking through to his rear or a flank facing unit behind the original UG, but that's all pretty situational.

[Hayung_is]

To jump in a little as a new player as well.

Charge claims are related to the charge combat phase, none are tied to actually moving or having declared a charge - although you may give you opponent more claims if you do (ie. infantry charging cavalry).

Spending cards on charging is more about table position than getting a bonus in combat.

In theory, if you KNEW your opponent would spend a card, then yes you could say your cards were wasted. However, more likely is if you had the advantage and didn't declare charges they might be happy to sit tight and not charge either. If you wanted both of your lancers to fight the one UG you also need to declare charges for both - as again, if you declare only with one, your opponent could charge that and the other lancer would sit (although perhaps you could then move to a flank position - which to my newbie understanding is better than getting a 2-1 frontal fight). So the usefulness of spending cards for charges is contextual on the table position and what each player is trying to achieve.

Also, just incase youre not aware, lancers often get a free or forced charge (no card cost) with 3BW.

[KaiserFranz]

Thx, very interesting points

Greets Franz