I agree that you can wheel a forced or free charge but said charge needs to be _at_ the cause of the trigger. Other charges are perfectly possible but they must be paid for.

OK, I am in. Late as ever.

It looks like the post code in the first post is wrong though. I believe is should be PR2 3AE

With my boardgamer head on the sentence "Huscarls (not Thegns) in Shieldwall, Select Fyrd AND Great Fyrd may be mixed in the same TuG of 6, 8 or 9 bases." indicates to me that any or all types can be in the same TuG. The key is the word may and the comma between Huscarls and Select Fyrd.

The second sentence reinforces that you may or may not have Great Fyrd in the TuG because TuGs that do have them cannot have shove.

Isn't international English a fantastic thing. Different people see things in different ways.

The biggest change for the Etruscans is, IMO, that the infantry change is all or nothing.

I would happily use the new version.

Have I missed a new spreadsheet? My 2024 draft one has the infantry with Pilum at 115 not 117

Quote from: Alqualonde on November 27, 2023, 02:19:41 PM
The thing I must complain about with the changes is that they tempt me to new armies. I find the idea of making skilled javelins work as TUGs quite exciting. Luckily I've tempered my enthusiasm for James IV at the thought of painting 400 pikemen.

Single ranked skilled javelins.

People see skilled and seem to assume this makes them really good shooters. In one rank it makes them either less good or the same as two ranks of experienced javelins.

Quote from: nikgaukroger on November 15, 2023, 12:54:41 PM

Quote from: Hammy on November 15, 2023, 11:47:32 AM

Quote from: martymagnificent on November 14, 2023, 10:53:01 PM
I don't consider legionaries a problem in general. The multiplier for exceptional is, however, clearly too low. There are cases where it is cheaper to be exceptional than superior melee expert! There's a reason most players will always take every exceptional they can get.

I read this and thought surely not so I got out the new 2024 points just to be sure and yes, most of the time Exceptional seems to be cheaper than Superior melee expert. This is a fairly hefty problem but one I have never looked at because other than the Meerkats I don't use exceptionals

Whist true, fortunately the situation does not occur in the army lists (I believe).

A bit of theory hammer on the spreadsheet has a number where it is true but with the possible troops that are actually in lists (I have checked most but not all the lists) where there is an option for superior ME or exceptional not ME but otherwise the same it seems that the exceptionals are slightly more expensive but still a bargain compared.

Quote from: martymagnificent on November 14, 2023, 10:53:01 PM
I don't consider legionaries a problem in general. The multiplier for exceptional is, however, clearly too low. There are cases where it is cheaper to be exceptional than superior melee expert! There's a reason most players will always take every exceptional they can get.

I read this and thought surely not so I got out the new 2024 points just to be sure and yes, most of the time Exceptional seems to be cheaper than Superior melee expert. This is a fairly hefty problem but one I have never looked at because other than the Meerkats I don't use exceptionals

Quote from: LawrenceG on November 15, 2023, 09:37:27 AM
Despite all that, the army results from numerous uses on https://www.dracostandard.co.uk/ArmyStats do not show any great benefit from using these armies.

Could it be that the points system does a half decent job of putting a value on the good Roman infantry?

Quote from: LawrenceG on November 14, 2023, 06:02:31 PM
My feeling is the way MeG works, if you can stack enough plusses on a 15 base frontage so that you are pretty much guaranteed to beat whatever is in front of it in any terrain, you are pretty much guaranteed to win all your games.

Hence Romans seem overpowered.

My first game at Skulls was against a Roman with exceptional and superior legions. Etruscans can't match that although the Samnite linen legion are equal in melee to superior legions. In the whole game I was able to limit the exceptionals to one combat that they entered late in the game and they did not break the TuG they hit.

Romans are good but the superior and exceptional legions are expensive which seems fair as they are actually rather good.

Quote from: Princeps on November 14, 2023, 10:46:18 AM
I disagree with you on this : points alone are not enough to balance armies; one needs to look at it as to where these points CAN be spent as well, or then I'd like someone to explain to me why Mesoamerican armies are so rarely fielded, even when flavorful (such as Aztecs or Incas). Could it be that they CANNOT field anything that has a semblance of resistance against European lancers ?

I am on RJC's side here.

Of course the points aren't perfect for every possible match up. Devastating charging lancers vs pike for example. The mounted pay loads of points for something that is directly cancelled.

What the points do a very good job of is getting armies to have roughly equivalent power and even at the same points army A is significantly better than army B, army B will be significantly better than army C which could well be better than army A.

Compared to other games I play (for example Flames of War) the MeG points system is very good.

As for massively outmatched armies like meso americans, I think I managed to beat or at least very nearly beat Simon's Normans with my Libyans and that was back before the points made skirmishers a bit cheaper.

Quote from: Dirkhrod on May 08, 2023, 09:34:50 AM
Hi,

I have an issue buying the ticket to the event, since I cannot change the country from the UK to Romania and I of course get an error for the billing address. This is supposed to be a PDF document I assume, so the physical address should not be an issue anyway, but still I cannot avoid this.

Any suggestion or solution ? I even have an account on the Battlefield Hobbies website with the correct Romanian address, but I still cannot change the UK to Romania when trying to purchase the event ticket.

Many Thanks,
Dan

Hi Dan,

I suspect that the site is complaining because we no longer ship things overseas and it can't actually understand that for an event entry there is no shipping.

A couple of options spring to mind.

One, you could put my address with your name so postcode SK2 6JU, 17 Davenport Park Road, Stockport.

Or if you just mail the shop on info@battlefieldhobbies.co.uk and we can organise an entry by you just sending the money to PayPal

Quote from: badhabum on March 01, 2023, 04:43:51 PM
So the displaced SUG must be behind but may be displaced in any direction ( with usual restrictions, 1 BW max, shooting range and so on  )

If you move through then the SuG must go behind 4-F

If you move near a SuG then it can be displaced sideways 4-G

Quote from: nikgaukroger on March 01, 2023, 03:08:07 PM
IMO the wording in the updated PDF is sufficient (and pretty much as the 1st release of the PDF), although as noted the diagram in 4F could be improved but that will have to wait.

I agree, it is the wording (and the fact that displace is now linked) that made me realise I had been playing wrong for years. If the word displace had been in italics or bold in the old rules I would not have gotten to the place I did.

No need to change the PDF, it is just confirming that the words in the PDF say what they mean.

Quote from: LawrenceG on March 01, 2023, 12:09:22 PM
4.G, immediately after the diagram, says "a friendly SuG can be displaced by the minimum necessary, and up to 1BW, to make room ...".

And, as the OP said, 4.F.6.2 links to the glossary, which says "The shunting of an UG in any direction up to 1BW to make room ..."

Given that the PDF is intended to be a clarification, not a change, to the printed rules, it seems this limit was intended all along. I note also that TuGs obstruct SuGs that don't have enough move to get fully through them, so it seems intended to limit "voluntary" passing through in general.

It does but passing through friends is 4.F
The only reference to 1 BW is by use of the word displace and displace limits to 1 BW.
That is the whole point of my question.
I have never played (or noticed played) a limit of 1 BW to the displacement of a SuG that has been moved through by a TuG.

Quote from: nikgaukroger on March 01, 2023, 11:00:00 AM
The diagram is possibly confusing.

Hammy is reading it as 2 consecutive moves by the same UGs - and I can see why - but I do not think that is what it is representing. Looking closely at it I agree with Lawrence that the SUG has only been displaced by 1/2 BW.

An improved diagram would help. One for the next big update already 

The diagram says "by the minimum necessary" there is no mention of a maximum or 1 BW.

I can now see a small purple arrow, I was focused on the red lines on the right.