Hi all,

Still trying to figure some sneaky ways to get extra shots from archer units before they get pounded into the ground. So trying to understand when path of charge provides shooting opportunities.

This one refers to the figures on page 64 of the PDF rulebook - the gallic warriors charging parthian infantry and parthian cataphracts. It clearly shows the path of charge coming within 1BW of the infantry even though the cataphracts block contact via countercharge or intercept.

My question is: if the infantry in this situation were shooters - could they still shoot at the chargers as if they had come within 1BW? as it appears the path of charge does as this is defined before countercharges and there doesn't appear to be any suggestion that the PoC is altered by countercharge/intercept.

Hey all,

A few things happened in this one scenario which was great learning. But wanted to run through it to make sure we did all the pieces right and check if an opportunity I missed was actually an opportunity.

So context before the pictures - my opponent is the active player (red) and the previous turn he had double moved his cataphracts (cata), so both should be at 4BW exactly.

Order of events.
Cata declares charge on lancers
Lancers (green) charge HA (bright red) - horse archers elect to skirmish and are cantabrian, rolling a 6, downgraded to 5 nets them a 4BW skirmish move.
2nd Cata declares charge on Cata (black)
Cata (black) declares countercharge/intercept - moving straight up to 3BW no closer than 1BW away from 2nd cata.

Edit: image links aren't playing nice. See Option 1 image attachment.

What actually happened;
Edit: See actual picture attachment.

In bloodrush I went straight with the lancers and I think I accidentally moved them 5BW, rather than the 4BW and change to catch the rear of the skirmishers. The cataphracts then wheeled and charged into the flank which predictably went poorly.

What I hope I could do:
Edit: see Option 2 attachment.

Given the horse archers skirmished - could I wheel towards the cataphracts and then could they 'press forward 1BW' to make contact, even though the skirmishes disappear after being caught?

Either way same outcome, as the cataphracts would then charge into a frontal combat. Much better than the flank that did occur.

Hey team,

I was just planning out an army for Southern Song and I usually start with Magna as its a little more achievable from a painting PoV but with an eye to expand to maximus.

That said Imperial Infantry in Southern Song have a notable difference

Magna - UG size 4 with max of 12 bases - allow 3 UG of Infantry
Maximus - UG 6,8 with max 16 bases - meaning the max you could get is 2, either 6 or 8 strong.

The Later Northern Song can field 18 bases when fielding separate formations as well.

I'll answer your rule queries first.

If you have a mixed line of bow and spear, the spear can countercharge or intercept but cannot start or move within 1BW from all enemy TuGs. The bow will probably not be able to shoot in the charge phase (the enemy would have to be within 1BW - in which case they might press forward into the bow defeating the point of countercharging or intercepting), but may get a shot during the shooting phase.

If you get it right, the benefits of shooting into the melee can be effective, but bear in mind that the opponent's supporting files may be contributing to the melee combat.

As the rules currently are, falling back is still an effective tactic for bowmen.  It is something I would really like to see altered in a future edition (quite a few years away!) making formed bowmen more effective at slowing down opponents and not allowing them to shoot and fall back.

As regular listeners to the podcast will be aware, I am firm believer in protected bow and generally don't downgrade the quality and or shooting skill of my bowmen and crossbowmen.  At the competition last weekend I did quite well with 3 TuGs of 6 protected experienced crossbow in my Aragonese army.  They combined well with my knights and almogavars.
As far as Chinese armies go, I have had some success with Tang, but these use Fubing mixed units which are quite tough and work somewhat differently.

Thanks for the comprehensive response!

How did you use the crossbowmen aragonese army? Protecting flanks or did you have them near the front line to soften troops for your own combat troops?

Theres also reconquer doing some amazing work.

https://www.myminifactory.com/users/Reconquer%20Designs#/

Hey all,

Had an interesting one last night which I think we resolved in accordance with the rules but felt a bit off.

Enemy cavalry had defeated their opponent and pursued (dev chargers so could not hold), ending up to the side of and past the front edge of my cavalry. Something like this (x my cav, o enemy cav);
       ^
      xx
      xx    oo
             oo
             v

Next turn it was my move first and I declared a charge with a 90deg wheel. My opponent wanted to countercharge to deny a flank charge, but on doing a 90deg wheel would result in no contact as he would rotate out of my path of charge. We ruled the countercharge wasn't possible as the rules disallows you from moving out of the path of charge, so they just had to sit there and take a flank charge which seemed a bit odd.
We figured you'd be in this situation just about anytime your front edge was a 1/2BW or more beyond the chargers front edge.

Keen to get thoughts if we played this right or missed something perhaps?

Hey all,

Before I get to the crux of the question, I understand that a "neighbouring file" is one in edge contact, facing the same direction and (the front edge) is parallel to another file, and that neighbouring files can be from other UGs.

My question is, how disjointed can you be and still be considered a neighbouring file (for shove and shatter for example)? My confusion comes from the difference in a 'supporting file' which has clear requirements and a 'neighbouring file' which I couldn't find a defined requirement other than above.

For example. I have two pike UGs (A and B), 4 ranks deep. If they were staggered such that the front rank of UGA aligned with rank 3 of UGB and both of these were engaged frontally by 2 enemy UGs, could the shoves generated by files in A or B benefit the other UG?

Thanks for the quick reply!