MeG

Mortem et Gloriam Players forum => Player Discussion => Topic started by: badhabum on November 25, 2019, 08:49:32 PM

Title: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: badhabum on November 25, 2019, 08:49:32 PM
I read it somewhere but did not find it back :

New deployment is by 1/3 that seems simple .

But I am correct to assume that the ouscouted side depoys by the % outscouted and if notup to 1/3 of his army, he deploys 1/3 of his army and the other player up to 1/3 of his army also ?

It is somewhere I know but where  ::)
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on November 25, 2019, 09:20:52 PM
Its exactly like today but replace 4s with 1/3rd of original UG count.

So outscouted player 1 deploys 50% roundup
other player 2 50% round up

Then player 1 33% rounded up
Player 2 33% rounded up

Player 1 what's left
Player 2 what's left

No outscoring
33% alternating
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: tarnowski1 on November 25, 2019, 09:23:32 PM
Quote from: badhabum on November 25, 2019, 08:49:32 PM
I read it somewhere but did not find it back :

New deployment is by 1/3 that seems simple .

But I am correct to assume that the ouscouted side depoys by the % outscouted and if notup to 1/3 of his army, he deploys 1/3 of his army and the other player up to 1/3 of his army also ?

It is somewhere I know but where  ::)

its on the deployment quick reference sheet , I had a similar search for it today :)

https://lurkio.co.uk/meg/meg/wp-content/uploads/MEG2020/Rule_Materials/2020%20PBS%20&%20Terrain%20QRS%20201119.pdf

Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: nikgaukroger on November 25, 2019, 09:37:41 PM
Quote from: Simon Meg-Meister on November 25, 2019, 09:20:52 PM
Its exactly like today but replace 4s with 1/3rd of original UG count.

So outscouted player 1 deploys 50% roundup
other player 2 50% round up

Then player 1 33% rounded up
Player 2 33% rounded up

Player 1 what's left
Player 2 what's left

No outscoring
33% alternating

Worth noting that the above is based on an example of being outscouted by 50% - it isn't a flat 50%  8)
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on November 26, 2019, 06:51:11 AM
The whole PBS sequence is on the sheet.
Just follow it line by line and you are there.
S
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: RobAustin on November 26, 2019, 09:36:49 PM
If I am out scouted by 10% do I deploy 10% of my forces or 1/3. (The old system was to deploy a minimum of 4, if I recall correctly.)

Is the 1/3 the number of UGs in the army or those remaining after the deployments resulting from outscouting?
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: lionheartrjc on November 27, 2019, 05:57:07 PM
Follow the PBS sequence line by line...  so if outscouted you deploy the %, not 1/3 (and your opponent will then deploy the %).  Then you deploy by 1/3s (always rounding up although the PBS sequence doesn't mention this).

Only if neither player is outscouted will you deploy 1/3 first.

Examples:

Army A has 11 UG,  army B has 19 UG.    Army A outscouted by 20%.
A deploys 3 UGs.
Then ambushes/flank marchers.
B deploys 4 UGs.
A deploys 4 UGs.
B deploys 7 UGs.
A deploys 4 UGs (this is there entire army)
B deploys there remaining 8 UGs.

Army A has 11 UG,  army B has 19 UG.    Army B outscouted by 20%.
B deploys 4 UGs.
Then ambushes/flank marchers.
A deploys 3 UGs.
B deploys 7 UGs.
A deploys 4 UGs.
B deploys 7 UGs.
A deploys 4 UGs.
B deploys 1 UG.

Army A has 11 UG,  army B has 19 UG.    Army B outscouted by 70%.

B deploys 14 UGs.
Then ambushes/flank marchers.
A deploys 8 UGs.
B deploys 5 UGs.
A deploys 3 UGs.

Army A has 11 UG,  army B has 19 UG.   Neither side outscouted.  B is the Defender.

Ambushes/flank marchers.
B deploys 7 UGs.
A deploys 4 UGs.
B deploys 7 UGs.
A deploys 4 UGs.
B deploys 5 UGs.
A deploys 3 UGs.
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: RobAustin on November 27, 2019, 08:45:23 PM
OK, thanks.

Since the army is divided into thirds before pre-scouting deployments, it would be interesting if the Army Builder could calculate that. I would have thought 19 would be 7/6/6, until I reread what you have posted that is not in the step-by-step instructions.
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on November 28, 2019, 05:31:50 PM
I guess we could do that in there for everyone.
taken literally it would be 7/7/5 as you have to round up each 33%.
Si
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: Rino on November 29, 2019, 09:43:44 AM
So a 10 unit army will go as 4-4-2, right?
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: lionheartrjc on November 29, 2019, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Rino on November 29, 2019, 09:43:44 AM
So a 10 unit army will go as 4-4-2, right?

Yes:

A full list from 7UGs to 25UGs:
7 = 3/3/1
8 = 3/3/2
9 = 3/3/3
10 = 4/4/2
11 = 4/4/3
12 = 4/4/4
13 = 5/5/3
14 = 5/5/4
15 = 5/5/5
16 = 6/6/4
17 = 6/6/5
18 = 6/6/6
19 = 7/7/5
20 = 7/7/6
21 = 7/7/7
22 = 8/8/6
23 = 8/8/7
24 = 8/8/8
25 = 9/9/7

I hope  that is clear...
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on November 29, 2019, 11:55:20 AM
Couldn't be clearer thanks List Meister!

S
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: badhabum on November 29, 2019, 05:44:33 PM
QuoteFollow the PBS sequence line by line...  so if outscouted you deploy the %, not 1/3 (and your opponent will then deploy the %).  Then you deploy by 1/3s (always rounding up although the PBS sequence doesn't mention this).

Still not Crystal clear if partially outscouted.

A has 10 units B has 20 units

B is outscouted by 10 %

B deploys camp, 2 units + flank and so on

A deploys camp and only one unit has he deploys per the % of outscouting and not the number of units deployed by B

A has 9 units remaining B has 18 units remaining

Do they deploy 1/3 based on the initial number of units in the army or 1/3 of the remaining units in the army after outscouting ?

Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: lionheartrjc on November 29, 2019, 05:55:37 PM
1/3 of the army size, not 1/3 of the remaining units, I think my examples actually make that clear.

Richard
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: badhabum on November 29, 2019, 07:02:19 PM
It is clear if you know the answer before. Otherwise trouble water  ::)

Now it is clear  :D
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: Jilu on November 29, 2019, 10:53:09 PM
Quote from: lionheartrjc on November 29, 2019, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Rino on November 29, 2019, 09:43:44 AM
So a 10 unit army will go as 4-4-2, right?

Yes:

A full list from 7UGs to 25UGs:
7 = 3/3/1
8 = 3/3/2
9 = 3/3/3
10 = 4/4/2
11 = 4/4/3
12 = 4/4/4
13 = 5/5/3
14 = 5/5/4
15 = 5/5/5
16 = 6/6/4
17 = 6/6/5
18 = 6/6/6
19 = 7/7/5
20 = 7/7/6
21 = 7/7/7
22 = 8/8/6
23 = 8/8/7
24 = 8/8/8
25 = 9/9/7

I hope  that is clear...

might be good to ad this in claries/core rule
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: mad lemmey on November 30, 2019, 09:08:16 AM
What If you use Parthians with only 3 Tugs? 😉
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: lionheartrjc on November 30, 2019, 10:10:33 AM
Quote from: mad lemmey on November 30, 2019, 09:08:16 AM
What If you use Parthians with only 3 Tugs? 😉

It is UGs that matter, not TuGs. I haven't worked out what the smallest possible 10000 point army could be.  Presumably 1 Legendary C-in-C, 1 Talented, 2 Competent subs,  and then an army with expensive compulsory troops and some high quality troops.  Romans with exceptional legionaries I guess.

3 UGs would be 1/1/1  (difficult to interpret 1/3 any other way!).
4 UGs would be 2/2/0
5 UGs would be 2/2/1
6 UGs would be 2/2/2 

Richard
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: mad lemmey on November 30, 2019, 11:01:12 AM
I know, that's why I asked.  :P
Now I want to find the smallest possible army!  ;D Suspect Nikeophorians with tooled up Varangians, Normans and charging lancers would be close
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: daveparish on November 30, 2019, 11:50:53 AM
Quote from: mad lemmey on November 30, 2019, 11:01:12 AM
I know, that's why I asked.  :P
Now I want to find the smallest possible army!  ;D Suspect Nikeophorians with tooled up Varangians, Normans and charging lancers would be close

Sad that I am I've already written a trial Nikephorian list with Richard's latest improvements. I got up to 9 UGs - but I was trying to make it up to nine, could have been a lot smaller. Really late knight armies with armoured horses might be smaller still.
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on December 01, 2019, 07:06:19 AM
Quote from: mad lemmey on November 30, 2019, 11:01:12 AM
I know, that's why I asked.  :P
Now I want to find the smallest possible army!  ;D Suspect Nikeophorians with tooled up Varangians, Normans and charging lancers would be close

You can get a Later Swiss down to about 5...

S
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on December 01, 2019, 07:06:51 AM
Quote from: Jilu on November 29, 2019, 10:53:09 PM
Quote from: lionheartrjc on November 29, 2019, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Rino on November 29, 2019, 09:43:44 AM
So a 10 unit army will go as 4-4-2, right?

Yes:

A full list from 7UGs to 25UGs:
7 = 3/3/1
8 = 3/3/2
9 = 3/3/3
10 = 4/4/2
11 = 4/4/3
12 = 4/4/4
13 = 5/5/3
14 = 5/5/4
15 = 5/5/5
16 = 6/6/4
17 = 6/6/5
18 = 6/6/6
19 = 7/7/5
20 = 7/7/6
21 = 7/7/7
22 = 8/8/6
23 = 8/8/7
24 = 8/8/8
25 = 9/9/7

I hope  that is clear...

might be good to ad this in claries/core rule

We can put its in the final army builder.  Very easy.

S
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: steads on December 01, 2019, 01:58:40 PM
What would be really useful would be a table that showed the number of UGs to deploy in each of the 2-4 batches for each level of outscouting.
For example for 13 UGs
  0% 5/5/3/-
10% 2/5/5/1
20% 3/5/5/-
30% 4/5/4/-
40% 6/5/2/-
50% 7/5/1/-
60% 8/5/-/-
70% 10/3/-/-
80% 11/2/-/-
90% 12/1/-/-

and for 19 UGs
  0% 7/7/5/-
10% 2/7/7/3
20% 4/7/7/1
30% 6/7/6/-
40% 8/7/4/-
50% 10/7/2/-
60% 12/7/-/-
70% 14/5/-/-
80% 16/3/-/-
90% 18/1/-/-
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on December 01, 2019, 06:39:33 PM
Its actually just knowing what a
a) 3rd rounded up is really isn't it.
b) each % of outvoting is for the army

I'll see if we can sneak it onto the army builder somehow in a space efficient manner.

S
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: RobAustin on December 03, 2019, 04:15:54 PM
Seems like they should be:

7 = 3/2/2
8 = 3/3/2
9 = 3/3/3
10 = 4/3/3
11 = 4/4/3
12 = 4/4/4
13 = 5/4/4
14 = 5/5/4
15 = 5/5/5
16 = 6/5/5
17 = 6/6/5
18 = 6/6/6
19 = 7/6/6
20 = 7/7/6
21 = 7/7/7
22 = 8/7/7
23 = 8/8/7
24 = 8/8/8
25 = 9/8/8

The formula for this would be:

First third = N/3 roundup
Second third = N/3 round
Final third = N/3 rounddown

Where N is the number of UGs.

In the second third "round" means that x.33 will round down and x.67 will round up. That gives more even distribution of the UGs over the thirds, rather than a short one at the end
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: Robin on December 03, 2019, 09:58:01 PM
I'm getting a head ache. Anybody for snakes and ladders ::)
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: RobAustin on December 04, 2019, 03:26:39 PM
If the Army Builder does it, then no headache.
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on December 04, 2019, 05:39:45 PM
All now built into the army builder.

Si
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: badhabum on December 04, 2019, 06:30:04 PM
Quote from: RobAustin on December 04, 2019, 03:26:39 PM
If the Army Builder does it, then no headache.
[/quote

Funny, it's easy to do dividing a number less than 20 by 3 is very basic.
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: stuuk on December 05, 2019, 09:19:46 AM
QuoteFunny, it's easy to do dividing a number less than 20 by 3 is very basic.
Is it? please divide zero by three for me and let me know how it goes? :D

Like the look of the new scouting/game setup rules - looks much fairer.
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on December 05, 2019, 09:23:02 AM
Thanks.
I do to.
I think we will get more variety of terrain.

Easy enough to add the scouting nada deployment.
Our wiz RJC managed to do a great version of a clever equation to replace my basic one.

Si
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: badhabum on December 06, 2019, 07:28:00 PM
0 divided by 3 is 0  8)
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: stuuk on December 08, 2019, 11:22:50 PM
Heh, well that is one interpretation.
Let us hope nobody asks the spreadsheet to calculate it, or you will be deploying your units either not all or possibly forever :)
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: lionheartrjc on December 09, 2019, 07:44:52 AM
The next version of the army builder may well have to pick the army, tell people how to deploy their army and then how to fight with it!
  ::)
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: mad lemmey on December 09, 2019, 09:21:58 AM
But I would still wouldn't win!  :'(
Title: Re: 2020 new outscouting and deployment
Post by: AntiokosIII on December 09, 2019, 05:15:42 PM
Quote from: lionheartrjc on December 09, 2019, 07:44:52 AM
The next version of the army builder may well have to pick the army, tell people how to deploy their army and then how to fight with it!
  ::)

I'd like to make my OWN disastrous errors, thank you very much!