MeG

Author's Section => Rules Queries and Clarifications => Topic started by: MUlloa on August 04, 2019, 09:27:15 AM

Title: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: MUlloa on August 04, 2019, 09:27:15 AM
What happens first? Do the guns/ cannons get to do KaB on charging unit or does the shoot & charge get to go first?

Thanks,
Marco
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: nikgaukroger on August 04, 2019, 10:06:47 AM
Shoot & Charge shooting happens immediately at the point you declare the charge. This is before the shooting of charge responses and as the KaB is said to be "in addition to their normal firing effects" I think that this is when the KaB is rolled.
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: badhabum on August 04, 2019, 11:38:45 AM
OK next : artillery SUGs are SK. If in the open and charged , as SK they must evade ....so how is it played if the charger does not reach the "guns" ...but the crew just ran away as mandatory ?
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: nikgaukroger on August 04, 2019, 12:01:05 PM
The SUG must make the run away/skirmish move just like any other SUG. Any unit that chooses/has to make a run away/skirmish move is moved regardless of whether the charger would reach their initial position.
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: badhabum on August 04, 2019, 07:14:36 PM
So the guns run away  if they can ...is SK they move 2 minus 2 ...if they run away 2 facing the wrong direction   8)
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: lionheartrjc on August 04, 2019, 07:20:29 PM
Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 04, 2019, 12:01:05 PM
The SUG must make the run away/skirmish move just like any other SUG. Any unit that chooses/has to make a run away/skirmish move is moved regardless of whether the charger would reach their initial position.

Seems to be what the rules say.  I must admit I thought Artillery couldn't run away or skirmish and if they failed to stop the charge with shooting/KaB test they were lost - but I can't find it anywhere.  I can't see a Cannon or Catapult evading myself.

Richard
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: Kokor Hekkus on August 04, 2019, 09:32:26 PM
We have always played they stand to receive charges, what happens if the have barricades
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: nikgaukroger on August 04, 2019, 09:41:58 PM
SUGs behind barricades to not have to run away/skirmish.
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: badhabum on August 05, 2019, 10:10:42 AM
Hence  I wrote : in the open ....but common guns light artillery are not always  behind barricades . I try to figure out how that artillery could just run away, guns firing ... 8)
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: IanN on August 05, 2019, 11:13:34 AM
Have assumed that the 'guns' remain in position and that the crews skirmish away.  If crews are caught - then killed otherwise they could return to guns and continue firing ?
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: Hunter on August 05, 2019, 11:42:41 AM
Anyone make models for skirmishing cannons?
HH
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: PUNCH on August 05, 2019, 06:29:54 PM
Quote from: Hunter on August 05, 2019, 11:42:41 AM
Anyone make models for skirmishing cannons?
HH

MFPE18 large handgun with one crewmen from Essex miniatures.

Punch
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on August 06, 2019, 06:28:10 AM
Well I've always played that they stand to receive .... but now its mentioned I can see I have never said so in the rules ...   ;D ;D

Got to laugh .... clarry pending.

Si
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: Rino on August 06, 2019, 07:21:46 AM
Actually why charging, you can just chase them away during movement. The machines remains where they are and the sug is useless.
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: nikgaukroger on August 06, 2019, 07:59:54 AM
Quote from: Rino on August 06, 2019, 07:21:46 AM
Actually why charging, you can just chase them away during movement. The machines remains where they are and the sug is useless.

How do you deduce that?

If they are pushed back like any other SuG during normal movement they could still shoot the following turn. (That may not be a good representation, but it is what the rules say I believe).

Raises the question of whether they should be pushed back like other SuGs of course.
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: Rino on August 06, 2019, 10:41:42 AM
If a heavy artillerie is not supposed to move how is that supposed to be displaced?

Whatever interpretation we take the KAB inflicted in the displaced sug will have some lasting effects on the life span of the artillerie.
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: craig.w on August 06, 2019, 11:19:59 AM
Well I raised this question about artillery skirmishing a month ago...

https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=525.0

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on August 06, 2019, 05:34:08 PM
You are indeed correct sir.  I did say that.
And now I think of it, its better due to the barricades then having a bigger benefit.
I thought more at the time than just now it seems.  ;) :D

Hmm let's stick with them running away.
The clarry has to be then that they abadon the artillery never to return.

Si
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: mad lemmey on August 06, 2019, 07:30:49 PM
Can they pay to group move through it?  ;)
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: marshalney2000 on August 06, 2019, 09:11:41 PM
Run away or skirmish?
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: mad lemmey on August 06, 2019, 10:32:00 PM
Both...
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on August 07, 2019, 06:27:31 AM
Quote from: mad lemmey on August 06, 2019, 07:30:49 PM
Can they pay to group move through it?  ;)

You can always prompt a BLOCK instead of an UG
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on August 07, 2019, 06:29:40 AM
Quote from: marshalney2000 on August 06, 2019, 09:11:41 PM
Run away or skirmish?

Alas it would need a special response and I dont want "evading" artillery pieces. 

So an coming back around to clarifying that they "stand". It gets the right effect in that they get to shoot and then get destroyed if they don't have barricades, and without all the fuss. Am i missing something?

Si
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: mad lemmey on August 07, 2019, 08:29:29 AM
But what if they are a block?  ;)
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: Simon Meg-Meister on August 07, 2019, 05:15:04 PM
Sorry can you expand on the short hand please.
Title: Re: Guns/ Cannons vs shoot & charge
Post by: mad lemmey on August 07, 2019, 05:51:45 PM
Just thebtwo rules threads appear to be crossing over this week. ;)