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Well, having listened to the latest podcast's chorus of complaints about how overpowered the Swiss are, I was surprised the Swiss army didn't sweep all before them.😉
The swiss will not be as bankable in 2026 :D
Their shortcomings/counters are more widely known and sprinkle some 2026 pike rule changes
Quote from: SteveO on November 17, 2025, 09:12:15 PMWell, having listened to the latest podcast's chorus of complaints about how overpowered the Swiss are, I was surprised the Swiss army didn't sweep all before them.😉
I never said they were overpowered, I said they were tedious to use, tedious to play against and generally not a fun game for either player. They also have significant weaknesses which can be exploited by a careful player however to the ill prepared they are brutally direct.
Quote from: tarnowski1 on November 19, 2025, 06:39:02 PMI never said they were overpowered, I said they were tedious to use, tedious to play against and generally not a fun game for either player. They also have significant weaknesses which can be exploited by a careful player however to the ill prepared they are brutally direct.
I assume you participated in the podcast(?) so I am sorry if I have misrepresented your personal view. However, the podcast posited that keils were too cheap and a points increase was being considered so clearly someone thinks they are overpowered. I would agree that the Swiss can be a dangerous army in the right circumstances but, like you said, they also have significant weaknesses. I could say the same about any number of other armies but at least there is historical justification for the Swiss being effective.
I accept you find the Swiss tedious to play but how are they any more tedious than playing with or against a horse archer army? I enjoy playing with my Swiss and I have never had an opponent complain about a tedious game.
Anyway, we can agree that the Swiss are not overpowered and agree to disagree over how much fun they are to play with.☺️
Quote from: SteveO on November 19, 2025, 11:03:36 PMQuote from: tarnowski1 on November 19, 2025, 06:39:02 PMI never said they were overpowered, I said they were tedious to use, tedious to play against and generally not a fun game for either player. They also have significant weaknesses which can be exploited by a careful player however to the ill prepared they are brutally direct.
I assume you participated in the podcast(?) so I am sorry if I have misrepresented your personal view. However, the podcast posited that keils were too cheap and a points increase was being considered so clearly someone thinks they are overpowered. I would agree that the Swiss can be a dangerous army in the right circumstances but, like you said, they also have significant weaknesses. I could say the same about any number of other armies but at least there is historical justification for the Swiss being effective.
I accept you find the Swiss tedious to play but how are they any more tedious than playing with or against a horse archer army? I enjoy playing with my Swiss and I have never had an opponent complain about a tedious game.
Anyway, we can agree that the Swiss are not overpowered and agree to disagree over how much fun they are to play with.☺️
I won skullrollers with them last year and a 2nd at britcon. Yes I was one of the podcasters and I like the army but wont use it again in tournaments as its imbalanced in the ruleset when in the form of superior, unprotected, fleet of foot, Kiel. I'm also of the opinion that a price increase doesn't fix the perceived issue, it just makes other kiel based armies worse.
Cheers
Matt
As a podcaster, infallibility would be such a bore!
Richard
Quote from: tarnowski1 on November 20, 2025, 12:04:21 AMI won skullrollers with them last year and a 2nd at britcon. Yes I was one of the podcasters and I like the army but wont use it again in tournaments as its imbalanced in the ruleset when in the form of superior, unprotected, fleet of foot, Kiel. I'm also of the opinion that a price increase doesn't fix the perceived issue, it just makes other kiel based armies worse.
Cheers
Matt
G'day Matt, I didn't know I was talking to you.
I accept that you find the Swiss tedious as that is a personal opinion. However, if you find them imbalanced in game terms and you have had great success with them, I can only assume you think they have an unfair advantage. I too have won a tournament with the Swiss, although our tournaments are not as big as yours in the UK. While I think of myself as a reasonable player, I was lucky to avoid playing the armies that would have given me trouble. I certainly have lost my share of games with the Swiss.
On a more philosophical note, I find it refreshing that the Swiss are competitive. I find so many other historically successful armies are not competitive and are accordingly seldom if ever used in tournaments. I am looking at you armies of Alexander, Hannibal, Trajan, Belisarius, Heraclius, Ghinggis, Timur, etc.
Cheers,
Steve