See here (https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3779.0).
Change "M13 - Fall back for other troops. Only drilled may fall back and only on a RED card."
The M13 prompted action (fall back for other troops) has been changed so it now requires a RED for drilled troops and is not possible to formed or tribal troops. The purpose of this rule is to make it more difficult for troops to fall back in front of an enemy.
Note: The fall back for cavalry, camelry, chariots and skirmishers has not changed.
Even combined with the positive changes to shooting this is probably a net negative for the humble foot archer. Possibly more realistic but you may want to consider if anything else can be done for them.
Martin
We will see what the impact of this change is before doing anything else.
Quote from: nikgaukroger on September 01, 2025, 07:07:14 AMWe will see what the impact of this change is before doing anything else.
The next step up would be a whole colour upgrade instead of the S=Wound effect.
I like the fact that the potential upgraded effects only apply to certain weapons. As much as I love my Irish, etc javelin does currently seem too good relative to weapons like bow (partially because range so often doesn't matter in MeG as you often only shoot once anyway)
Martin
Quote from: lionheartrjc on September 01, 2025, 07:12:46 AMQuote from: nikgaukroger on September 01, 2025, 07:07:14 AMWe will see what the impact of this change is before doing anything else.
The next step up would be a whole colour upgrade instead of the S=Wound effect.
So a PB vs mounted at less than 1 BW would possibly get 3 upgrades if skilled ? interesting situation
as an alternative, how about only allow fall back moves as a block to entirely drilled foot? less change to the overall dynamics and does reduce the overall effectiveness of the current fall back techniques
I have been thinking about it . It would be much more historical indeed as most guys did not use the fall back . There are as always exceptions , well known because everyone knows the exceptions . So it is a case of history vs game . So going towards history or towards playability . It could speed up the game as some delaying tactics will be impossible ut it could slow the games because of indecision . Still I would like to try
On reflection I have 2 issues with this potential change. One general and one more specific.
This is an across the board slight reduction in the effectiveness of virtually all infantry (not just the archers whose shooting is getting a slight bump to compensate). Mounted are not suffering anything similar.
There are quite a few tribal, loose, fleet of Foot, missile equipped infantry (Irish and the like) whose tactics involved a lot of agile toing and froing that probably should be able to back up (in fact they should probably be better at it than drilled archers)
Martin
QuoteThere are quite a few tribal, loose, fleet of Foot, missile equipped infantry (Irish and the like) whose tactics involved a lot of agile toing and froing that probably should be able to back up (in fact they should probably be better at it than drilled archers)
Skirmishers , it's called skirmishers ;D
We made a proposal for that kind of case : loose flexible going loose to skirmish vice&versa
Harsh, painfully realistic. I'd love to try it!
More realistic but huge impact on the game . People will have to learn to be cautious .
Positive waves even if I might regret it later as I love some of the tribal and formed armies
Quote from: martymagnificent on October 04, 2025, 09:22:28 PMOn reflection I have 2 issues with this potential change. One general and one more specific.
This is an across the board slight reduction in the effectiveness of virtually all infantry (not just the archers whose shooting is getting a slight bump to compensate). Mounted are not suffering anything similar.
There are quite a few tribal, loose, fleet of Foot, missile equipped infantry (Irish and the like) whose tactics involved a lot of agile toing and froing that probably should be able to back up (in fact they should probably be better at it than drilled archers)
Martin
Well, you could add "fleet of foot" into M12.
Quote from: LawrenceG on October 10, 2025, 11:37:05 AMQuote from: martymagnificent on October 04, 2025, 09:22:28 PMOn reflection I have 2 issues with this potential change. One general and one more specific.
This is an across the board slight reduction in the effectiveness of virtually all infantry (not just the archers whose shooting is getting a slight bump to compensate). Mounted are not suffering anything similar.
There are quite a few tribal, loose, fleet of Foot, missile equipped infantry (Irish and the like) whose tactics involved a lot of agile toing and froing that probably should be able to back up (in fact they should probably be better at it than drilled archers)
Martin
Well, you could add "fleet of foot" into M12.
If you make it costlier why not otherwise no . Not only doe sit make it easier for them to fall back, especially formed ones (from red to yellow) but they are not skirmishers . it would also impact swisslike foot
Quote from: martymagnificent on October 04, 2025, 09:22:28 PMThere are quite a few tribal, loose, fleet of Foot, missile equipped infantry (Irish and the like) whose tactics involved a lot of agile toing and froing that probably should be able to back up (in fact they should probably be better at it than drilled archers)
Martin
An idea floated in another thread was to make some Flexible infantry switch between Loose and Skirmish order. (
Could be noted by adding a modifier to the formation classification-- e.g. "Tribal/Flexible(s)" vs "Tribal/Flexible(c)" or "Tribal/Light" vs "Tribal/Flexible" -- or by a unit characteristic-- e.g. "Harrier" or "Lights" that changes what the flexible TUG flexes into.)
Another way to achieve the effect I think you're looking for which would be easier to roll out in an annual army update would be to add "Evade" as a unit characteristic, which would allow the UG to access the skirmish/run away charge responses even if they normally wouldn't qualify.
{{ EDIT: On second thought, expressing the alternate flexible mode would almost certainly be better handled by a characteristic than complicating formation types. Struck out that part of the suggestion. Would also make it possible to roll out with an annual army update-- as Shower Shooting and Spear Protection were-- which is an extra plus. }}