To encourage the historical use of scythed chariots:
THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL RULE CHANGE.
1. Scythed chariots may be deployed 5BW from the central table line rather than the usual 6BW.
2. If at the end of any turn, the chariots are not as close to the opponent's rear table edge as all other UGs in the player's army then the chariots are withdrawn and take no further part in the battle.
If you are concerned that scythed chariots are not effective enough, then the PACTO shatter rule may be used. So if the chariots roll as S in charge combat (obtaining the Shatter as well as a kill), they get a bonus GREEN dice roll with a further S or Skull causing a second kill.
I do not recommend this rule for other expendable troop types.
The reason why I think this rule is a good idea is that we tend to see Scythed Chariots used as some sort of mobile reserve. There is no evidence for this. Nobody in their right mind would want a scythed chariot behind them - you would spend your entire time looking over your shoulder (and counting your limbs)!
Richard
Works for me. I'd be inclined to use it in comps I run.
Quote from: lionheartrjc on March 04, 2025, 06:33:41 PM
The reason why I think this rule is a good idea is that we tend to see Scythed Chariots used as some sort of mobile reserve. There is no evidence for this. Nobody in their right mind would want a scythed chariot behind them - you would spend your entire time looking over your shoulder (and counting your limbs)!
Richard
Then why not instead simply give a KAB test on any UG that has a friendly scythed chariot unit behind it? (either directly behind, or within a certain number of BW either side).
IF you stick with plan A, it would be simpler just to not allow troops to advance further forward than friendly scythed chariots. I don't think there is any historical evidence for scythed chariots vanishing because someone else got ahead of them on the other side of the battlefield.
Why is this is a problem only for scythed chariots and not other expendables?
I think similar would apply to my Ming Thunderbomb oxen (you would want them well in front of you if you were a Ming soldier!).
For me the problem with expendables is that they have to deploy first. Historically they would be aimed at something solid like Pike, I think. But in the game no one puts a good target down in front of them. I'd be happy to slam them into something solid, do damage or not, and then get on with the rest of the game. But that is not usually an opportunity. Which is why I use them in reserve on a flank (and sometimes they do nothing all game).
So perhaps use this suggestion (which will limit them a bit) but allow them to deploy normally in any batch
Might want to make an exception if there are ambushes or flank marches.
Quote from: LawrenceG on March 05, 2025, 11:06:31 AM
Then why not instead simply give a KAB test on any UG that has a friendly scythed chariot unit behind it? (either directly behind, or within a certain number of BW either side).
Mainly to keep things simple. A rule like you suggest could mean the scythed chariot would be deployed somewhere more obscure.
Quote from: LawrenceG on March 05, 2025, 11:06:31 AM
Why is this is a problem only for scythed chariots and not other expendables?
Didn't say there wasn't a problem for other expendables.
Herds of cattle probably should have to deploy in some type of terrain - they were mostly used from an ambush.
Need to check the sources for thunderbolt oxen.
Driven lines of civilians possibly should have to deploy on the table centre line and have a similar rule. Nik suggested they might have only been used in siege situations which I am checking up on - in which case they might be better as a scenario entry in the lists.
Richard
Quote from: daveparish on March 05, 2025, 12:45:57 PM
For me the problem with expendables is that they have to deploy first. Historically they would be aimed at something solid like Pike, I think. But in the game no one puts a good target down in front of them. I'd be happy to slam them into something solid, do damage or not, and then get on with the rest of the game. But that is not usually an opportunity. Which is why I use them in reserve on a flank (and sometimes they do nothing all game).
If the opponent is adjusting their deployment because of where you place your scythed chariots then that is something you can use to your advantage.
Scythed chariots are formed so have some manoeuvrability.
Richard
At Magnesia, were the scythed chariots not deployed on a flank, the Seleucid left flank with the cavalry ? to the front but on the flank :)
Quote from: badhabum on March 05, 2025, 04:49:43 PM
At Magnesia, were the scythed chariots not deployed on a flank, the Seleucid left flank with the cavalry ? to the front but on the flank :)
Indeed, and RJC's idea wouldn't prevent that would it?
Well I had to read it 2 more times to be sure I understood 8)
All in all an interesting idea that I'd like to test with my Galatians at some point!