It seems many if not most crossbowmen and archers, when taken as an independent TUG are combat shy or have the option to downgrade to combat shy.
However, (particularly Southern) Song Chinese equivalents do not and I was wondering if this was based on historical reference of Song archers/xbowmen being more inclined for melee?
One Song period source believed that crossbowmen were able to stop a cavalry charge unaided and as they were generally fairly well equipped for fighting the combination suggests that Combat Shy is not appropriate.
oh, do you mind pointing me to the source - that sounds interesting!
I suppose that might imply melee expert as an option, as I'm struggling to see non-combat shy crossbowmen as stopping a cavalry charge, even on a good day. But that is more wishlisting than a list query ;D
C11th written by Zeng Gongliang. Part of it is:
"Regarding the method of using the crossbow, it cannot be mixed up with hand-to-hand weapons, and it is beneficial when shot from high ground facing downwards. It only needs to be used so that the men within the formation are loading while the men in the front line of the formation are shooting. As they come forward they use shields to protect their flanks. Thus each in their turn they draw their crossbows and come up; then as soon as they have shot bolts they return again into the formation. Thus the sound of the crossbows is incessant and the enemy can hardly even flee. Therefore we have the following drill – shooting rank, advancing rank, loading rank."
I think that actually stopping a determined cavalry charge with them alone is a bit optimistic, but from what I can see the So.ng crossbow was well respected by the Jin
Depends what cavalry are charging. If they are typical nomadic unprotected, then plausible.
Quote from: nikgaukroger on November 01, 2024, 06:35:58 AM
C11th written by Zeng Gongliang. Part of it is:
"Regarding the method of using the crossbow, it cannot be mixed up with hand-to-hand weapons, and it is beneficial when shot from high ground facing downwards. It only needs to be used so that the men within the formation are loading while the men in the front line of the formation are shooting. As they come forward they use shields to protect their flanks. Thus each in their turn they draw their crossbows and come up; then as soon as they have shot bolts they return again into the formation. Thus the sound of the crossbows is incessant and the enemy can hardly even flee. Therefore we have the following drill – shooting rank, advancing rank, loading rank."
I think that actually stopping a determined cavalry charge with them alone is a bit optimistic, but from what I can see the So.ng crossbow was well respected by the Jin
Thanks, I'll see if I can hunt that down.
I thought the technological advancements and investment in Crossbow by Song was well represented by the availability of crossbowmen and the Guard unit with skilled Crossbow which seems fairly unique.
I thought you would still have combat shy as an option as Song armies obviously varied in quality and enthusiasm.
Quote from: LawrenceG on November 01, 2024, 08:28:58 AM
Depends what cavalry are charging. If they are typical nomadic unprotected, then plausible.
That seems well represented in the shooting the chargers and slowing effects thereof rather than being slightly better in the ensuing melee.
Quote from: Hayung_is on November 01, 2024, 01:18:29 PM
I thought you would still have combat shy as an option as Song armies obviously varied in quality and enthusiasm.
You are always allowed to downgrade an UG by a level of quality and/or shooting skill - this allows the poorer quality armies to be represented.