Is there any chance that we could have (or do we already have but I can't find?) an official clarification on what is meant in the rules for terrain sizes. This is because I have experienced completely different interpretations at different competitions.
1. The rules say p14'Compulsory items must cover at least 6 BW x 6 BW and fit within 10 BW x 10 BW'. Does this mean that the largest possible piece is (A) a square 10 BW x 10 BW or that (B) it can't be more than 10 BW across which would mean that the largest possible piece is a circle with diameter 10 BW? For this one I thought it was (A) - it was ruled at a comp that it was (B) - I cut down all my terrain to match - then at last comp is was (A).....
2. For secure flanks on p13 - if you are not using deep water there is a minimum size (6 BW x 6BW) but there is no minimum size listed for deep water. This means that you can have a waterway that is 1mm wide or in fact so small as to be invisible! I can see that is how the RAW works but was that the intention when it was written?
3. Flat hills and mountains - a lot of people use square or rectangles of flat material to be hills and mountains to avoid the bases sliding off and to make positions clear - I'm not one of them - my hills are hills - but I understand why this may be a good idea. For these would it be possible to have some rules about what they look like it terms of defining ridge lines? To me these either need a mark for a point which is the peak and then whichever unit is closer to that point is higher (so it evenly slopes to that point), or it needs a point and lines going to the corners so that it is a pyramid, or a shape on top which is flat and everything slopes to that shape, or a ridge line on top and lines to the corner - or whatever you want really as long as it is clear. At the moment when you just get an unmarked square on the table who knows what it means? If you define it in discussion it is usually unclear where exactly all the slopes are. At the last comp I was faced with a mountain in my deployment area which supposedly had a ridge straight down the middle at right angles to my base edge and no other slopes so that none of my troops - when facing enemy - counted as up hill! So it was shaped like a ridge tent except with no slope at all at the ends and no cliffs - so an impossible shape.
Quote from: DanMcLaughlin on November 22, 2023, 08:53:46 AM
Is there any chance that we could have (or do we already have but I can't find?) an official clarification on what is meant in the rules for terrain sizes. This is because I have experienced completely different interpretations at different competitions.
1. The rules say p14'Compulsory items must cover at least 6 BW x 6 BW and fit within 10 BW x 10 BW'. Does this mean that the largest possible piece is (A) a square 10 BW x 10 BW or that (B) it can't be more than 10 BW across which would mean that the largest possible piece is a circle with diameter 10 BW? For this one I thought it was (A) - it was ruled at a comp that it was (B) - I cut down all my terrain to match - then at last comp is was (A).....
2. For secure flanks on p13 - if you are not using deep water there is a minimum size (6 BW x 6BW) but there is no minimum size listed for deep water. This means that you can have a waterway that is 1mm wide or in fact so small as to be invisible! I can see that is how the RAW works but was that the intention when it was written?
3. Flat hills and mountains - a lot of people use square or rectangles of flat material to be hills and mountains to avoid the bases sliding off and to make positions clear - I'm not one of them - my hills are hills - but I understand why this may be a good idea. For these would it be possible to have some rules about what they look like it terms of defining ridge lines? To me these either need a mark for a point which is the peak and then whichever unit is closer to that point is higher (so it evenly slopes to that point), or it needs a point and lines going to the corners so that it is a pyramid, or a shape on top which is flat and everything slopes to that shape, or a ridge line on top and lines to the corner - or whatever you want really as long as it is clear. At the moment when you just get an unmarked square on the table who knows what it means? If you define it in discussion it is usually unclear where exactly all the slopes are. At the last comp I was faced with a mountain in my deployment area which supposedly had a ridge straight down the middle at right angles to my base edge and no other slopes so that none of my troops - when facing enemy - counted as up hill! So it was shaped like a ridge tent except with no slope at all at the ends and no cliffs - so an impossible shape.
1- A
2- digital rules p13 '1.1. A deep water is placed by the defender on a side table edge up to 6BW into the table. It
can be declared as zero depth so the table edge is the waterline and is treated as deep
water for all purposes.'
3- thats kind of a when is a hill not a hill question? you and your opponent need to agree the terms of what is defined as uphill and where it blocks line of sight etc . Simple answer is they need to mark a ridge line or its counts as all points rise to the centre point of the terrain 'square.'
1. "10 BW x 10BW" clearly (to me, anyway) implies a rectangular shape. I agree it could be more specific, but it seems perverse to interpret it is referring to a circle!
3. Agree beforehand is definitely recommended. Or you run the risk of coming up against a player who insists, mid tournament game in a critical combat, that if the hill is represented in stepped fashion, your unit can only claim uphill bonus if the line of fighting is precisely on a step boundary. Grrr.
Quote from: ShrubMiK on November 22, 2023, 09:24:17 AM
1. "10 BW x 10BW" clearly (to me, anyway) implies a rectangular shape. I agree it could be more specific, but it seems perverse to interpret it is referring to a circle!
3. Agree beforehand is definitely recommended. Or you run the risk of coming up against a player who insists, mid tournament game in a critical combat, that if the hill is represented in stepped fashion, your unit can only claim uphill bonus if the line of fighting is precisely on a step boundary. Grrr.
1. Seems so to me too but a clear statement seems to be required so that everyone is playing it the same. The rule implies but does not say it means a square so some people will interpret it differently.
3, The problem with this agreement thing is it is too vague. If it isn't drawn on then where exactly is it? Also if your opponent won't agree that the shape has to be possible in geometry you end up having to get the umpire. It also ends up with you having to say after each move - so do you agree that this is above that.
Quote from: tarnowski1 on November 22, 2023, 09:18:46 AM
1- A
2- digital rules p13 '1.1. A deep water is placed by the defender on a side table edge up to 6BW into the table. It
can be declared as zero depth so the table edge is the waterline and is treated as deep
water for all purposes.'
3- thats kind of a when is a hill not a hill question? you and your opponent need to agree the terms of what is defined as uphill and where it blocks line of sight etc . Simple answer is they need to mark a ridge line or its counts as all points rise to the centre point of the terrain 'square.'
1. So my point is the rules need to say it is a square otherwise some people will say it isn't.
2. So that is the writer's intention. OK but don't know why they wanted to say that a mountains and forests narrow the battlefield but water doesn't but it seems that's what they wanted.
3. My point. It should be marked.
Quote from: DanMcLaughlin on November 22, 2023, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: tarnowski1 on November 22, 2023, 09:18:46 AM
1- A
2- digital rules p13 '1.1. A deep water is placed by the defender on a side table edge up to 6BW into the table. It
can be declared as zero depth so the table edge is the waterline and is treated as deep
water for all purposes.'
3- thats kind of a when is a hill not a hill question? you and your opponent need to agree the terms of what is defined as uphill and where it blocks line of sight etc . Simple answer is they need to mark a ridge line or its counts as all points rise to the centre point of the terrain 'square.'
1. So my point is the rules need to say it is a square otherwise some people will say it isn't.
2. So that is the writer's intention. OK but don't know why they wanted to say that a mountains and forests narrow the battlefield but water doesn't but it seems that's what they wanted.
3. My point. It should be marked.
1. 'Compulsory items must cover at least 6BW x 6BW minimum and fit within 10BW x 10BW.' literally from the rules unsure how must fit within a 10X10 BW can in anyway be interpretated from disallowing a square 10x10 or one 9X9 . Also the example in the rules, slightly after the terrain placing section details 'EXAMPLE: Back to our highland Gauls and Romans. First both players put a secure flank item down.
The Gaul chooses a large wood that is 10BW x 10BW and places it on the centre line'
2. Its a SECURE flank not necessarily a nature reserve, infact the waterway is the only secure flank that prevents flank marching so regardless of width its still more secure than the forestry mountainy version
3. then ask them to mark it and if they cant ask them to make it a non-hill? NOt sure the rules need to go into what colour the trees need to be.
A geometrically impossible hill is firm grounds for an umpire call.
You could offer the opponent one of your 3D hills to make everything clear.