I have got some questions as we are discussing some tournaments protocols :
When you ask your opponent what army he plays, the timing of the army might be particularly important to determine what kind of UGs he can use, what kind of allies he may have. In some armies you must explicitly say if it's an army in spain, in Africa so ..if my opponent asks me what historical period I play, is the current agreement that I should be as precise as possible. The simple exemple is James the IV scottish 1512 is not 1513 :-)
What's the consensus?
Next when deploying UGs if the UG is an allied UG should it be said at the moment of deployment or at the end ?
Got part of the answer : you do not declare allies during deployment
My view is the army should be defined precisely, including date, external allies and any specific options.
Remember the object is to have fun, and anything that might lead to bad feeling should be avoided.
Other people may have different views on this. Also, if a camp is fortified, but the camp does not look as if it is fortified, then make sure that this is stated clearly to your opponent and get confirmation from your opponent that they have heard you.
Richard
When publishing comp runners and riders I include the Army Name, any sub-category such as geographical area, date, list book and list number.
Unlike RJC (and others) I don't include allies, nor any named general (e.g. Alexander) as I like to have a bit of uncertainty and don't think these cause friction. YMMV
Richard's camp point is well made as people often use the same camp model for all sorts - so could also apply if it was mobile but didn't give that look, etc.
If you are handing over a printout from the pdf, should you also include the pdf for each possible ally, just the ally you have, or not at all?
I can envisage cases where you deploy an UG that is not permitted in your main list, yet you do not have to declare it as belonging to an ally. In theory the opponent should be able to work it out, but it depends how diligently they researched the runners and riders.
What I try to achieve if to have a kind of consensus on what should be communicated at minima. I did the same for deciding who is higher ranking in a tournament in case of equality of points and so now France, Belgium and Greece use the same system as UK which helps a lot.
But deciding what info we tell our opponent is sometimes a bit difficult . Hence my approach here. trying to define a common at minima approach .
Nik's way is very similar to mine but other people do not follow it ( and some very competitive players as well )
So a common approach might also help things
is there not something about this at the beginning of each armylist?
Quote from: Jilu on October 19, 2023, 04:44:10 PM
is there not something about this at the beginning of each armylist?
Quote from: Army list book 11 Sumer and AkkadAs a courtesy to your opponent when you deploy your troops, you should describe each UG fully; type, training, quality, protection, melee weaponry, shooting skill and weaponry, characteristics, and which ally if appropriate. You should also explain how any unusual troop types in your army function and any special rules including Stakes, Caltrops, Barricades and Obstacles and troop types such as Battle Wagons.
My specific point is : army date or front as it often impacts what it can use :)
Quote from: badhabum on October 18, 2023, 05:24:05 PM
Got part of the answer : you do not declare allies during deployment
My u derstanding from the army list text is that you must declare if an UG is from an ally
On the rare times I have been asked to rule on this at comps I have gone with what the rules say:
(https://i.imgur.com/6Pkmm1w.png)
You then say which troops are under an allied general when you get to the placing of generals part of deployment - which obviusly declares which troops are allied :)
Looks like we have degree of conflict between what Nik quoted from the rules and what I quoted from the army list pdf.
Perhaps they can be harmonised in the next update.
Quote from: LawrenceG on October 20, 2023, 09:59:47 AM
Looks like we have degree of conflict between what Nik quoted from the rules and what I quoted from the army list pdf.
Perhaps they can be harmonised in the next update.
I will look to update the introductions in the 2024 army lists.
Quote from: badhabum on October 19, 2023, 07:37:40 PM
My specific point is : army date or front as it often impacts what it can use :)
why hide the date or the front?
the battles took place on a known date and on a known front
some lists have a lot of options and some don't
how do you want to check if your opponent deploys the authorized troops with the right options?
if your opponent is trying to gain an advantage, I find it quite petty
for the ally, it is indicated that this is done at the time of the general's deployment
I think as written in the army lists, it is better to be courteous and describe your troops and other parameters
it's a game where we will spend 3h30 face to face with another player
I think you will agree with me that the goal is to have a good time
Quote from: lionheartrjc on October 20, 2023, 10:37:16 AM
Quote from: LawrenceG on October 20, 2023, 09:59:47 AM
Looks like we have degree of conflict between what Nik quoted from the rules and what I quoted from the army list pdf.
Perhaps they can be harmonised in the next update.
I will look to update the introductions in the 2024 army lists.
To avoid useless discussions as we have a tournament starting tomorrow I suppose the update will conform to the rules ? so no need to say if it is an ally except when deploying generals ?
Yes, the lists will conform to the rules.