Had a game last night and wanted to clarify something.
Do troops with charging Lancer weapons claim the +2 vs others (cavalry in this case) in the charge phase even if they didn't charge (or countercharge or intercept), but were themselves charged?
In the game we had a unit of Roman charging lancers who were engaged frontally with one of my units but with an overlap of two files. In that combat they had claimed the Charging Lancer +2 in the charge phase. No issues with that.
In the next turn I charged another unit into the overlap frontally. We played the Roman unit claimed the +2 again for those two files against my charging unit, despite the fact they didn't move or declare any sort of charge or countercharge assuming they had at least moved enough to get the charging lancer bonus. ( I am not sure they could have declared a countercharge anyway given the unit was already engaged).
Is that correct? I think it is after re-reading the rules, given devastating charge appears to be always on in the charge phase, but given the charging lancer is a weapon characteristic rather than a general characteristic, like devastating charges, I wanted to check whether it was only claimable if you actively charged.
Quote from: Lord Sunderland on April 15, 2023, 12:00:16 PM
Had a game last night and wanted to clarify something.
Do troops with charging Lancer weapons claim the +2 vs others (cavalry in this case) in the charge phase even if they didn't charge (or countercharge or intercept), but were themselves charged?
Yes.
Although obviously if charged by nellies they get +0 instead ;)
I suspect this frequently asked question would be a lot less frequently asked if it had been called "Lance" instead of "Charging Lancer"
Something to consider next time the rules are updated.
I had the same question when I started playing a few years back. However, the rules do now state that units are assumed to take the appropriate action in a charge response that is not depicted on the tabletop, such as counter-charging a short distance.
This question brings to mind an issue I've been curious about, given that all TUGs are deemed to charge at least a little bit just before contact, just when does the General Claim, "vs. non-charging Cv, Cm or Ch who shot" come into play? Is it just that the TUG didn't declare a charge and chose to shoot instead and was therefore too busy? The choose to shoot component seems to be the important element here. It could be argued that the TUG in the example mentioned would also be too busy engaging as an overlap. Shoot and charge cavalry don't need to declare a charge to be able to fire at incoming chargers (although only if the attacking unit is within shooting range when they start the charge) but you do pay extra for that ability.
Does it apply if a missile focused unit attempts to evade, throws inadequately and is caught? It is facing it's opponent and it did shoot.
This has perhaps been addressed elsewhere but I have not come across it.
My thanks in advance.
For charge combat purposes a TuG is either charging, standing to receive a charge, skirmishing or running away. Standing to receive also covers the situation where a unit charges a little bit just before contact, which is why combat claims can apply when standing to receive a charge.
Richard
Quote from: Wizard of Oz on April 16, 2023, 12:04:58 AM
Shoot and charge cavalry don't need to declare a charge to be able to fire at incoming chargers (although only if the attacking unit is within shooting range when they start the charge) but you do pay extra for that ability.
Maybe I misunderstood the rules, but I thought "charge only shooting" troops (which I think this comment was about) who don't declare a charge will shoot (like everyone else not charging) at a range of 1 BW. (i.e. the range when the enemy start the charge is irrelevant).
Quote from: LawrenceG on April 16, 2023, 09:19:27 AM
Quote from: Wizard of Oz on April 16, 2023, 12:04:58 AM
Shoot and charge cavalry don't need to declare a charge to be able to fire at incoming chargers (although only if the attacking unit is within shooting range when they start the charge) but you do pay extra for that ability.
Maybe I misunderstood the rules, but I thought "charge only shooting" troops (which I think this comment was about) who don't declare a charge will shoot (like everyone else not charging) at a range of 1 BW. (i.e. the range when the enemy start the charge is irrelevant).
yep, if they arent shooting and charging they use the normal shooting rules. Only caveat is 'charge only' only shoot with the files being charged rather than any shooter within 1 bw of the charge path