https://www.thelonesomewargamer.com/post/asiatic-successor-eumenes-a-real-challenge
I don't agree with your assertion that it is impossible to do the army at 10k points.
core army
Xystophoroi 4 161 644
Greeks hoplite 16 104 1664
Comp Pro AC 1 700 700
Elite Phalanx 24 140 3360
Ally 1
Xystophoroi 4 161 644
Greeks pike 8 92 736
Comp Pro Ally 1 300 300
Ally 2
Xystophoroi 4 161 644
Greeks hoplite 8 104 832
Comp Pro Ally 1 300 300
Poor unfortified camp 108
total 9932
Have I missed something? Command strain could be somewhat eased by farming out 1 TUG of Argyraspids to each of the allies.
Also, it is not required to take all 24 elite phalanx bases. Perhaps Eumenes' historical army that you want to model was more than 10,000 points.
You are, it seems, missing 2 points or I did not write it correctly, english not being my first language
Point one : it was impossible to recreate the army Eumenes used ( which by the way included satrapal cavalry )
Point two I forgot to stress on : A WORKABLE army that can be used in games 8)
Your version is utterly weak and impossible to play with realistically chances to do something with a competent CIC that has to coordinate 6 TUGS .That is my point but use what you whish
And another point was : Eumenes is the ONLY general that may have 24 SUP pikes (contrary to roman armies were everyone has 24+ SUP ) . Preventing him from playing them is stupid and frustrating .
So as to have a workable list with any chances for Eumenes to be on table, during a tournament, have some cards, have a possibility to get into a fight ..it needed to be adapted to the real facts and that was the discussion, the point I made.
3 competent generals, 2 ally, the competent CIC having in your version to coordinate 6 TUGS while competent is NOT a workable list in my own poor opinion .
Also the SUP pikes were historically allies .
So the latest version is a much better way to represent what really happened .
I do not ask you to be convinced, just to remember : workable list ( and much more historical in the composition of the list )
In fact, to me, your are just proving I am right ;D
Let's just add that Eumenes' armies were not exactly noted for always have tip-top command&control.
(In fact, I would argue that wargamers optimising for competitive play do generally go for historically unrealistic levels of command& control ability. Just my poor humble opinion!)
Quote from: ShrubMiK on July 01, 2022, 12:40:46 PM
Let's just add that Eumenes' armies were not exactly noted for always have tip-top command&control.
(In fact, I would argue that wargamers optimising for competitive play do generally go for historically unrealistic levels of command& control ability. Just my poor humble opinion!)
Indeed You are right, but, then also the moves allowed by rules are also unrealistic, it would be quite dull to have most of your troops to go just forwards or in bloxks by command.
There would not be the ballet-dancing we do most of the time on the table with the UG's trying to outsmart the opponent.
I remembre Simon did a movement chart that was more realistic, most of the now allowed moves were gone.....
Quote from: ShrubMiK on July 01, 2022, 12:40:46 PM
Let's just add that Eumenes' armies were not exactly noted for always have tip-top command&control.
(In fact, I would argue that wargamers optimising for competitive play do generally go for historically unrealistic levels of command& control ability. Just my poor humble opinion!)
Sorry but I do disagree, the army is not optimised to be competitive, try it and say again it is optimised !
Now it is as historical as possible
Eumenes's army is not noted for tip-top commander: could you explain? What do you refer to ?
Eumenes was a good commander but works with allies which limits his impact on the army !
I always had a soft spot for Eumenes, over that nasty Antigonos (boo! hiss!).
I didn't say the army *is* optimised for competitive play, I was referring to the fact that you argue that it isn't and want to make it so.
I said "command and control", not "commander". Things didn't seem to go very much to plan for him in his big battles! The reasons don't really matter.
It's because he was famously bad at rolling skulls.
Quote from: ShrubMiK on July 06, 2022, 09:26:33 PM
I always had a soft spot for Eumenes, over that nasty Antigonos (boo! hiss!).
I didn't say the army *is* optimised for competitive play, I was referring to the fact that you argue that it isn't and want to make it so.
I said "command and control", not "commander". Things didn't seem to go very much to plan for him in his big battles! The reasons don't really matter.
Well he did win battles didn't he !
As for command control the allies settle that problem I had command problems and it did cost me a battle :D
Before the changes you could not create an Eumenes army similar to the historical model now you can . That's a really big difference