Literally started playing these rules yesterday and my friend has borrowed the rulebook. As usual there are things bothering me the day after a game when I am supposed to be working. Please indulge me if you have a few seconds: There is a charge section to the turn, all very clear, but we couldn't find a note specifically forbidding using a prompted move action, not a charge, to contact an enemy. In which case there would then be a (non-charge) combat in the following phase. Is this permissible? It wouldn't be in most other rules I know. I guess two formations could trudge into contact and start chopping away at each other, in real life. Did we just miss the note? I haven't picked my username for nothing....
No problem!
Normally you can only make contact via a charge (page 132). It is easy to miss this. No you cannot just trudge up and make contact with a prompted action.
Richard
Thanks, all clear.
There is a section on page 132 called "M: Engaging in melee when already in contact" that does talk about creating a melee combat in the movement phase with a unit that is currently in corner-to-corner support. But I believe that's the only time you can move into melee in the movement phase. It also allows you to get into a flank combat even if you would not normally be in the flank zone, unless I'm reading it incorrectly.
9.4 M on page 132 covers the situation where a unit is in contact with an enemy unit (so cannot charge it) but is not already in combat with it. This is either when it is in corner to corner contact only or side edge to side edge contact only.
Quote from: Danny Duffer on February 09, 2022, 10:34:23 AM
Literally started playing these rules yesterday and my friend has borrowed the rulebook. As usual there are things bothering me the day after a game when I am supposed to be working. Please indulge me if you have a few seconds: There is a charge section to the turn, all very clear, but we couldn't find a note specifically forbidding using a prompted move action, not a charge, to contact an enemy. In which case there would then be a (non-charge) combat in the following phase. Is this permissible? It wouldn't be in most other rules I know. I guess two formations could trudge into contact and start chopping away at each other, in real life. Did we just miss the note? I haven't picked my username for nothing....
Welcome aboard. Indulgement is part of the forums purpose. No rules are 100% easy to pick up.
Is this because of the CPZ (p. 113) that a TUG cannot end a prompted movement in full frontal contact with another TUG?
Quote from: mikecobden on April 18, 2022, 09:35:28 PM
Is this because of the CPZ (p. 113) that a TUG cannot end a prompted movement in full frontal contact with another TUG?
No. It is because a charge is the only way to make contact except by the provisions of 9.4 M. (page 132).
The CPZ is to prevent UGs moving from in front of an enemy UG to behind their flank.
So Rule M on page 132 says this, but it does not cover what happens if a TUG performs a prompted move and ends in full frontal contact with an enemy TUG. Rule M discusses corner contact and side contact only.
So what happens if I move my TUG right into the front of the enemy? I cant charge and I am already aligned. no combat?
You cannot move into contact. You can end just short of ccontact but not into contact.
How short of contact would I need to stop?
Sorry, but I cannot see this in the rules. Even page 132 says that you cannot create a new "combat" unless charging or pursuing, but it does not say anything about not making "contact" with another UG.
Quote from: mikecobden on April 19, 2022, 08:10:39 PM
How short of contact would I need to stop?
A gnat's todger away is sufficient.
Quote
Sorry, but I cannot see this in the rules. Even page 132 says that you cannot create a new "combat" unless charging or pursuing, but it does not say anything about not making "contact" with another UG.
As you can only create a combat by a charge or a pursuit or, if already in contact by one of the methods per page 132, it follows that any other contact you make cannot be one that creates a combat - side edge to side edge would be an example of what you could do.
Quote
As you can only create a combat by a charge or a pursuit or, if already in contact by one of the methods per page 132, it follows that any other contact you make cannot be one that creates a combat - side edge to side edge would be an example of what you could do.
This seems obvious after you've played for a while - but the question has come up quite a few times so it clearly isn't obvious for people starting to play. Something to emphasise more clearly next time there is a re-write? I guess there must be rule sets out there that do just allow you to walk into combat (no matter how strange that might seem) for this question to come up as often as it does.
You could well be right 8)
Ive never played another wargame (other than Commands and Colors or the like). Im just reading the rules as written! The movement rules say you can move this far and so on, but nothing even suggests that you cannot make contact and then fight them during that phase. The inference, buried in a special case rule about charging, is very hard to understand even when explained. Interestingly, there are very clear explanations for when the charge or countercharges need to stop, or the CPZ, but something as basic as "you cannot make contact with an enemy UG through normal prompted movement" is nowhere to be found.
Is there anyone on TTS or other online service that would be willing to meet me to go through a game and point out the other 100 mistakes I have been making?!?
Apparently there is NO ONE who plays this in all of Los Angeles!
Quote from: mikecobden on April 19, 2022, 08:56:06 PM
Is there anyone on TTS or other online service that would be willing to meet me to go through a game and point out the other 100 mistakes I have been making?!?
Probably worth asking on the Facebook group as well as here.
Quote"you cannot make contact with an enemy UG through normal prompted movement" is nowhere to be found.
Just had our first game, and we had the same problem. As there was no such statement we just moved into contact.
I know its hidden in a sideruling on P132, but something that basical should be mentioned at the start of the charge-chapter (this is the only way to contact the enemy) or/and the move section (no move into contact, stay 1BW away... along that.
Hiding elemental basics into a rule covering other special cases reminds me of DBMM (which I love, but not for that feature). So just a suggestion for the next edition: make that plain.