James Howard-Johnston's "last great war of antiquity" is a detailed account from multiple linguistic sources of the Byzantine/Sassanid war that dominated matters in much of Eurasia in the earlier part of the C7 century. It is a life's work reflecting his academic gathering of knowledge since the late 70s, it is also a very enjoyable read.
For the Maurikian byzantine list it suggests the option to upgrade for the highly trained veteran army with which Heraclius launched a series of campaigns into Iran which ended the war. Howard Johnson describes an army which from various sources regularly defeated the Sassanid in open battle and through highly effective pre-battle disposition and harassing tactics. This army was much more effective than the field armies regularly defeated by the Sassanid's in the previous generation. As a holding comment, to be expanded looking to other sources referred to, this might mean that most regular cavalry are superior, some exceptional. Potentially, with crossover with the Turks some elite cavalry might be armoured rather than protected. Armenian, Georgian and Iberian allies appear. There is certainly a very high level of command and control and drill, all referred to in original sources.
The army of 20 years before equally might have downgrading options, performance against the Sassanid became poor and the army demoralised. This is just, as I say, a holding comment until I have time to write some more.
It is a good book, a must read for the period ;D
I'd agree that the Maurikian list could be revised somewhat for Heraclius' army.
Certainly Heraclius' army for the campaigns that ended the war would deserve to be wholly Drilled for a start - probably need to say that the Army Commander would have to be Talented or better as well to reflect Heraclius himself in the same way Alexander and Caesar have to be present to have options in their lists.
Some quality uplift may be justified, however, this may well be an expansion of those with Melee Expert and not a blanket quality uplift - it is the function of Melee Expert to be a "half way house" in some cases instead of a quality increase. Some more full Superior types as well though.
Not sure what you are getting at with the reference to some cavalry being "Armoured" due to a link with the Turks - there is no such category in MeG and the contemporary Turks are Protected at best.
In respect of downgrading for some earlier armies you can always do that with a MeG army - unless you were thinking of compulsory ones in a given period.
NIK WE AGREE UPGRADE THAT ARMY
By god I just bought that booknow after reading the post as I am a byzantine fan and I still have so many to read ;D mr David Harley I should hate you :)
I have a line of reading suggesting some heavier cavalry due to Turkish armour influences changing Byzantine practices - I am sceptical myself and more melee expert might well cover it , if it is indeed a thing at all.
when I have time I'll follow through - agree it is odd
Agree with Nik's other comments
Quote from: davidharvey1 on February 01, 2022, 12:24:40 AM
I have a line of reading suggesting some heavier cavalry due to Turkish armour influences changing Byzantine practices - I am sceptical myself and more melee expert might well cover it , if it is indeed a thing at all.
Wonder if it is something to do with the adoption of some Avar equipment - but that had happened by the time of Heraclius as it is reflected in the Strategikon.
yes, the army of Maurice and Priscus, his C-inC, does seem to have adopted from the Avars to an extent, stirrups certainly but other possibilities; added to the list of reading of source material when I can get around to it - summer earliest
Ie joy the history of Heraklios and his campaigns very much and have often considered doing the army. I have not done so because the list does not model the army well, for the reasons stated above. A new list taking these factors into account would likely cost me several hundred dollars, so leave it alone.
Quote from: AntiokosIII on February 04, 2022, 12:16:27 AM
Ie joy the history of Heraklios and his campaigns very much and have often considered doing the army. I have not done so because the list does not model the army well, for the reasons stated above. A new list taking these factors into account would likely cost me several hundred dollars, so leave it alone.
Hundereds of dollars...do you not exagerate a bit ? ;D
if changes are such as "melee expert", "drilled", some more SUP it would change the list yes but only for the option of Heraklios in Persia which means the rest of the list remains unchanged . Also those changes will not mean more miniatures so I fail to see what the problem is
Of course if a manufacturer felt - please- like producing figures drawn for instance from Dr Andrey Evgenevich Negin Roman cavalry (vol 2 incl Heraklian Byzantines) then we'd spend the money
Since I don't have the army under any description, yes, getting a new list I cannot resist will cost me the price of a new army.
So now I have managed to finish the book and the conclusions are : we must upgrade the army or at least revisit it .
It is clear that in 622, Heraclius and his officiers did some work studying the available military literature and training the core army for months even years !
There is an added element that should be taken into account : holy war/martyrdom as it was a new element introduced by Heraclius. The war became the war of "Good vs Evil" and the promise of martyrdom and highway to heaven ( just like the djihad a few years later ).
That was new for the era . The first religious war between the cross and another religion/philosophy
Some more SUP ? and more drilled due to training ? more melee expert ?
The army was small but highly trained and motivated + mobile ( they used pack animals and not carts to move quicker )
The romans had ONE such field army and it did beat at least 4 or 5 Sassanian field armies that did outnumber them ..so there must be something more than just Heraclus's generalship ! There is troop quality
Now any ideas, any plans for the future ?
I went on Amazon to buy a copy but could not face the $50+ price tag!
Quote from: AntiokosIII on June 10, 2022, 05:10:18 AM
I went on Amazon to buy a copy but could not face the $50+ price tag!
It is available on kindle if you which