VVV
VVV
AA
YY
TT
Up the page is north.
The Vs are my unit, facing south.
AAYY are an enemy unit, originally facing south. The As are facing north (they turned round to face V's rear charge), Ys facing south (they had earlier on stepped forward in a charge to hit T; the As had charged something else that has since broken, before they got charged in the rear).
TT is my unit facing north.
Can the northeast base of V move into combat with the rear of the eastern Y?
Does the southeast base of V fight the rear of the other Y, or is it a supporting file vs the eastern A?
If in melee phase, V bases are not in contact, even corner to corner with any other unit than A .So V bases will fight A either frontally or for the eastmost file as a supporting file.
If A survives, next charge phase may be interesting as V easternmost file could charge 1 BW forward to hit Y
Hoping I am reading the "illustration" right - always find using letters less clear that a pic, but that's me, so fingers crossed.
Quote from: LawrenceG on January 18, 2022, 06:50:30 PM
Can the northeast base of V move into combat with the rear of the eastern Y?
Does the southeast base of V fight the rear of the other Y, or is it a supporting file vs the eastern A?
1. No as it is not creating a supporting file, filling a gap, creating ranks or fighting an enemy supporting file - one of those that feels a bit weird.
2. Supporting file - it would have to be in contact with Y to be fighting it. (I take it, BTW, that something stopped the eastern "V" file pressing forward into the rear of "Y")
Quote from: badhabum on January 18, 2022, 07:32:32 PM
If A survives, next charge phase may be interesting as V easternmost file could charge 1 BW forward to hit Y
Not if V's easternmost file is a supporting file as supporting files are
engaged and it is files other than those blocked or engaged that can do the 1 BW charge.
Quote from: nikgaukroger on January 18, 2022, 08:10:26 PM
(I take it, BTW, that something stopped the eastern "V" file pressing forward into the rear of "Y")
Yes, there was another base in the way that died in the charge phase.
Quote from: LawrenceG on January 18, 2022, 08:25:39 PM
Quote from: nikgaukroger on January 18, 2022, 08:10:26 PM
(I take it, BTW, that something stopped the eastern "V" file pressing forward into the rear of "Y")
Yes, there was another base in the way that died in the charge phase.
Thought it could be something like that ;D
Quote from: nikgaukroger on January 18, 2022, 08:12:42 PM
Quote from: badhabum on January 18, 2022, 07:32:32 PM
If A survives, next charge phase may be interesting as V easternmost file could charge 1 BW forward to hit Y
Not if V's easternmost file is a supporting file as supporting files are engaged and it is files other than those blocked or engaged that can do the 1 BW charge.
The only problem with this is that being "engaged" is not one of the exceptions for a forced charge . You might say it seems logical but if within 1 BW of an enemy base....it still is in a forced charge situation so perhaps a small word in the next clarifications as even in the definition of engaged or in the description of the forced charge it is NOT mentionned that supporting files are not subject to forced charge ( and it is not part of the exceptions )
Yes that comes regularly back during tournaments sorry
Will give that due consideration. Thanks.
Sorry had to correct my last phrase
in the description of the forced charge it is NOT mentionned that supporting files are not subject to forced charge ( and it is not part of the exceptions
Hunh....
p. 119, bullet 3:
Quote
If some part of an UG is blocked or already engaged in combat, it may still charge with other files [that can] reach a target within 1BW directly ahead and may [still] have to forced charge.
Not the best worded sentence in the book with two grammatical errors! I interpret this to mean that if you are blocked or engaged (which includes supporting files) you are not permitted to charge - including otherwise forced charges. But, the wording isn't crystal clear and subject to alternative interpretations.
Quote from: Francis Small on January 19, 2022, 05:27:12 PM
Hunh....
p. 119, bullet 3:
Quote
If some part of an UG is blocked or already engaged in combat, it may still charge with other files [that can] reach a target within 1BW directly ahead and may [still] have to forced charge.
Not the best worded sentence in the book with two grammatical errors! I interpret this to mean that if you are blocked or engaged (which includes supporting files) you are not permitted to charge - including otherwise forced charges. But, the wording isn't crystal clear and subject to alternative interpretations.
You got a good point.
The problem being that to find the answer you have to go trough many pages and different chapters .
It would be easier if it all was in the same chapter,
May I also point out universal rule 20 on p.81 that may help to clarify the issue, which reads:
20. CHARGING FILES WHEN IN AN UG IS IN COMBAT: even if already engaged in combat an UG may charge with any of its files that are not engaged frontally at any target that is within 1 BW, and may have to if subject to forced charges.
It appears to me that there is a distinction between files that are engaged as supporting files and files that are engaged directly to their own front i.e. "frontally". Those that are not engaged frontally can, or must if subject to forced charges, apply universal rule 20.
Quote from: badhabum on January 20, 2022, 09:35:29 AM
Quote from: Francis Small on January 19, 2022, 05:27:12 PM
Hunh....
p. 119, bullet 3:
Quote
If some part of an UG is blocked or already engaged in combat, it may still charge with other files [that can] reach a target within 1BW directly ahead and may [still] have to forced charge.
Not the best worded sentence in the book with two grammatical errors! I interpret this to mean that if you are blocked or engaged (which includes supporting files) you are not permitted to charge - including otherwise forced charges. But, the wording isn't crystal clear and subject to alternative interpretations.
You got a good point.
The problem being that to find the answer you have to go trough many pages and different chapters .
It would be easier if it all was in the same chapter,
What are the grammatical errors .. seems perfectly and carefully crafted and measn exactly and only what it says.... i may be missing soemthing of course..
If some part of an UG is blocked or already engaged in combat, it may still charge with other files [that can] reach a target within 1BW directly ahead and may [still] have to forced charge.
I did not write anything about grammatical errors ;D
My point is that the needed infos are dispersed here and there in the rules and that it would be easier for later to have all the needed info at the same place if about charges . That was all I wrote .
QuoteIf some part of an UG is blocked or already engaged in combat, it may still charge with other files [that can] reach a target within 1BW directly ahead and may [still] have to forced charge.
Well, I read that to mean:
Part A of the UG is blocked or engaged.
Part B of the UG is other files that can reach a target within 1 BW
Part A can (and may be forced to) join in with the charge when part B charges.
What it really means is:
If some part of an UG is blocked or already engaged in combat, other files can charge if they can reach a target within 1BW directly ahead and this may be a forced charge.