Had a bit more time to have a play around with the new Inca list. Very radically changed. Possibly the most changed list in the 2022 offering.
Has lost the majority of its superiors and the option to be an unprotected fleet of foot army.
Has gained the ability to have everyone protected and not to take any subjects.
Probably not a win overall. I found the superior unprotected guys more points efficient. Also not a change anyone had suggested/discussed as far as I recall (I know someone had suggested changes to the subject peoples). Also not aware of any new historical info or players setting the competition world alight to force a balance change.
Seems like a bit of a bolt from the blue
Martin
Actually managed to get a game with the new list. Definitely not an improvement
I would also add a query. Guardsmen have to be in the army commanders command. What if he doesn't have one (ie he is a 'floater')?
Martin
Quote from: martymagnificent on December 10, 2021, 11:47:34 PM
Actually managed to get a game with the new list. Definitely not an improvement
Martin
List change was intended to reflect history and give the correct feel to the army. From a pure competition perspective I think Kingdom of Cusco is the better list, but South American armies are not really top competition lists.
Problem with Inca is that most of the sources are flimsy when it comes to battles and how they were fought and how to get the right effect for MeG.
Floating is a good point (didn't think of that one!). I think I'll add an errata entry that if floating - the guardsmen must be in a single "Inca" (as opposed to vassal nation) command.
Richard
It's a real beat down to lose that many superiors in one fell swoop.
Martin
Quote from: martymagnificent on December 11, 2021, 10:58:42 AM
It's a real beat down to lose that many superiors in one fell swoop.
Martin
The Superior classification clearly doesn't feel right. If I have a concern, it is whether they should have more melee expert.
Richard
If the army feels unbalanced, perhaps yes more melee expert would be nice.
BUT : 2 or 3 years ago a moshe army did win a tournament in France so who knows it is perhaps just a question of adapting to the new army lists.
In all the army lists there are numerous lists not that dissimilar to the iNCA ( lots of INF, few SUP )
It is a bit galling to see it quite so gutted. This period was of the military campaigns that extended the kingdom to the southern end of the Titicaca Basin, and hundreds of miles north to subject the Cajamarca and Chimu kingdoms.
I'm not sure what 'feels right' means but if it was a general downgrade the perhaps a m/e 1/2 factors drop might have been less harsh.
Other than drill they are no better than the tribes they subjugated
Quote from: lionheartrjc on December 11, 2021, 01:08:05 PM
Quote from: martymagnificent on December 11, 2021, 10:58:42 AM
It's a real beat down to lose that many superiors in one fell swoop.
Martin
The Superior classification clearly doesn't feel right. If I have a concern, it is whether they should have more melee expert.
Richard
I don't have a problem with plenty of superiors. They were trained soldiers with a long run of successes. Don't think the whole army should be superior but to shift from quite a lot to pretty much none seems odd.
Martin
It's not because an army had many successes that it should be superior . It could be numbers, tactis, logistics, opponents mistake and also many kingdoms just did accept INCA rule in a "friendly" way without a military campaign !
Quote from: badhabum on December 12, 2021, 08:16:35 PM
It's not because an army had many successes that it should be superior . It could be numbers, tactis, logistics, opponents mistake and also many kingdoms just did accept INCA rule in a "friendly" way without a military campaign !
Sure, but superior is partially about self belief/confidence and experience. One would imagine going from a small state to a vast empire in a short time would leave you with some pretty experienced and confident soldiers.
Martin
yes but most inca soldiers were militian , trained and equiped by the state ..still militia
Meg lists abound with superiors who were not full time soldiers, which was, after all, an exceptionally rare thing in this era
Even in the South America section of the America lists just about every army has more superiors than the Inca.
Martin
Quoteevery army has more superiors than the Inca
Therein lies the problem, the lists were designed with a balance amongst its contemporaries. Adjusting one just throws out that balance. It the same view is being taken then all the other SA lists should lose the superiors also.
Muzo : 24 SUP Columbian 43 ( 27 being SK ) Muisca : 22 Cauca : 16 Paez : 24 Aruak : 24 Brazilian 0 Tupi : 24 Moche : 54 ( the best ) Canari : 12
Chimu : 24 Chanka : 22 ( + 12 SK ) Inca Cusco : 6 Inca Empire : 10 Hatun-Colla : 24 Northern Mapuche : 0 + 36 SK ...Southern Mapuche having once again dissapeared
So now we can compare and the winner is Moche
I must admit when I was aked if the new INCA list seemed OK I said yes but regretted the loss of the SUP . I also had not tought of comparing with other nations of the same era/lists 8)
I should have paid more attention to it .