I've played through a number of games attempting to make some use of barricades and repeatedly the result is I pay way too much for an upgrade that does nothing. I deploy them and my opponent can just deploy somewhere else, even if I do put them somewhere useful my opponent can just go a different direction, even if my opponent is forced to confront them they...just don't charge. It feels like I'm paying a bunch of points to lock my unit in place (in a game based almost entirely around movement) and then at best square off with a (less expensive) opponent who doesn't have to engage.
This is compounded in tournament play where time is of the essence and even the most complicated tactic that forces my opponent to attack is rendered useless my the fact that barricades don't matter until the 3rd turn of play.
Is there something I'm missing? Some way to make this hugely expensive upgrade worth taking?
Barricades clearly won't work if your opponent simply ignores them. You have to be able to take advantage of the fact that they are forcing your opponent elsewhere. In competition games where scoring is based on breaking the enemy, clearly setting up barricades and expecting your opponent to throw themselves onto the barricades - lemming like, is not going to happen.
In the right terrain a single UG behind barricades might block up a whole flank, but this isn't going to happen very often. Barricades is most effective for cheap, downgraded troops. Clearly putting good troops behind a static barricade is a waste of points.
Richard
Couple of units of artillery behind barricades on the flank of an army with a narrow front can work pretty well.
Martin
If it's any consolation I've been feeling the same pain wrt how to use barricades properly in a game. I'm a relative noob to MeG but really enjoy the late Mediaeval period so have built an Italian Wars army and want to use heavy cannons with it which btw have to come with barricades according to the lists. Deploying them on a suitably defensive terrain feature just allowed my opponent to deploy somewhere where they weren't. Deploying them front and centre on their own made them extremely vulnerable. Deploying them front and centre with some supporting melee infantry also behind barricades was better but tied up too many points in a static defensive line, plus the infantry needed a yellow activation to jump over the barricades to drive off enemy missile units. What I'll probably try next is to use some cheap formed loose crossbowmen in the supporting role instead. I want to persevere with it though as cannons were a battle winner historically so finding a way I can make them, and barricades in general, work for me in the game will be satisfying.
With artillery try for a hill in a central position and place them on it firing over your troops.
The guns will help in slowing your opponent's units, and get you a base or 2
Kokor, that is what I tried to do in my first game, but my opponent rolled well enough to shift the hill off towards my flank and baseline. I tried commenting it was a very unsporting action ;) but he was unmoved. I deployed the cannon on the hill anyway, but they were out of position and played very little part in the game as a result. Thanks for the pointer though, good to know I was thinking along the right lines.
Update. I've been playing with the army builder spreadsheet and I think it's making barricades too expensive for infantry TUGs as it adds the barricade cost onto each base in the unit not just the first rank. This seems wrong to me as the effect of barricades is based on the frontage and barricades can be vacated and re-occupied by other units with more ranks than the original.
Quote from: SimonStokes on October 04, 2021, 01:35:03 PM
Update. I've been playing with the army builder spreadsheet and I think it's making barricades too expensive for infantry TUGs as it adds the barricade cost onto each base in the unit not just the first rank. This seems wrong to me as the effect of barricades is based on the frontage and barricades can be vacated and re-occupied by other units with more ranks than the original.
you can put the infantry 1 rank deep behind the barricade
Quote from: rayfredjohn on October 04, 2021, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: SimonStokes on October 04, 2021, 01:35:03 PM
Update. I've been playing with the army builder spreadsheet and I think it's making barricades too expensive for infantry TUGs as it adds the barricade cost onto each base in the unit not just the first rank. This seems wrong to me as the effect of barricades is based on the frontage and barricades can be vacated and re-occupied by other units with more ranks than the original.
you can put the infantry 1 rank deep behind the barricade
I don't think you're allowed do that in the Pacto variant, which is what I mostly play, and even in Magna/Maximus for instance it probably doesn't make sense to put missile troops in a single rank even behind barricades as their shooting effectiveness is determined by the number of ranks in the file that's firing.
There's obviously some massaging that can be done within the spreadsheet to arrive at the right points value for the frontage that's being covered by the barricades but it would be nice not to have to go to those sorts of lengths and instead state it explicitly.
Don't know anything about pacto
If you are cunning you put your troops in one rank and then contract them leaving the vacant barricade sections to be occupied by other units.
Sneaky!
Got a reputation to live up (or down) to.
Renaissance army plus barricades WOW you really know how to encourage people to comps LOL Like your Armoured Space marines with Pavice in one hand and pike in the other need Barricades :-\
Robin, I do not give barricades to the guys armed with AK47's.
Thanks to Rob Hutton for pointing this out but the clue on how to represent only the front rank in a unit having barricades was hiding in plain sight within the army builder input sheet - "* Mixed UGs - add an extra line and repeat the UG number in column A".
See snip attached.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xqwXpHDX/Snip.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xqwXpHDX)
Quote from: SimonStokes on October 05, 2021, 06:51:43 PM
Thanks to Rob Hutton for pointing this out but the clue on how to represent only the front rank in a unit having barricades was hiding in plain sight within the army builder input sheet - "* Mixed UGs - add an extra line and repeat the UG number in column A".
This is illegal as all elements in an UG must have the same optional characteristics if available.
A far as I can recall the cost for Barricades was halved several iterations ago. Consequently you need to pay the cost for all elements.
Quote from: steads on October 05, 2021, 07:19:36 PM
Quote from: SimonStokes on October 05, 2021, 06:51:43 PM
Thanks to Rob Hutton for pointing this out but the clue on how to represent only the front rank in a unit having barricades was hiding in plain sight within the army builder input sheet - "* Mixed UGs - add an extra line and repeat the UG number in column A".
This is illegal as all elements in an UG must have the same optional characteristics if available.
A far as I can recall the cost for Barricades was halved several iterations ago. Consequently you need to pay the cost for all elements.
This is correct and would be how it would be required for competition.
Of course, what consenting adults do between themselves is up to them ;D
Thanks both for the clarification.
So the shenanigans around deploying in a single rank is not illegal, for Maximus at least?
Deploying in a single rank is allowed.
Mind you, coming back to the original discussion on barricades, nobody with a modicum of brain cells is going to attack them and will just move elsewhere on the table leaving whoever is behind them to spectate.
Quote from: marshalney2000 on October 05, 2021, 09:58:04 PM
Mind you, coming back to the original discussion on barricades, nobody with a modicum of brain cells is going to attack them and will just move elsewhere on the table leaving whoever is behind them to spectate.
except elephants....
I have to agree, seems like barricades will not benefit the competition gamer or in any one off time limited game.
Where they might come into their own though is in scenario games and campaigns where the terrain is more constrained.