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Mortem et Gloriam Players forum => Player Discussion => Topic started by: lionheartrjc on September 09, 2021, 05:14:04 PM

Title: Opinions Sought
Post by: lionheartrjc on September 09, 2021, 05:14:04 PM
The Historical Notes, Troop Notes and Historical Enemies sections of each army list ("the historical bits") are currently repeated three times, once for Maximus, once for Magna and once for Pacto.  I would like to include these only once.

Should I

a) Put all the historic bits at the start of the set, before the Maximus lists.
b) Include them only in the Maximus lists.

Any views?  I reserve the right to ignore everyone's opinion - but what do people think would work best.   The allies and notes sections will of course remain with each list.

Richard
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: Raiderd on September 09, 2021, 06:58:13 PM
I think one time is good enough
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: NeilMac on September 09, 2021, 07:18:44 PM
Once is fine, you could consider grouping all three lists for each army together with a single set of supporting notes.,
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: badhabum on September 09, 2021, 07:41:23 PM
People playing maximus will tell you once is enough, but pacto players will like to have the comments under their own lists ..so repeat it for all lists
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: nikgaukroger on September 09, 2021, 08:25:57 PM
With the allies and notes sections still there all the info needed to draw up a list will be present so I'd be happy with the other stuff being dropped.
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: SteveO on September 10, 2021, 12:54:49 AM
I like the idea of all three versions of a list being grouped together so you only need one set of the historical notes.
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: Hunter on September 10, 2021, 07:42:44 AM
Just once please.
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: Rittervonbek on September 10, 2021, 08:49:18 AM
Put all the historic stuff once at the start then give page numbers for the army lists.
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: steads on September 10, 2021, 09:43:53 AM
Quote from: SteveO on September 10, 2021, 12:54:49 AM
I like the idea of all three versions of a list being grouped together so you only need one set of the historical notes.

This will be really unpopular with those of us who want to give an army list sheet to our opponent at a competition.
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: lionheartrjc on September 10, 2021, 01:15:08 PM
Quote from: Rittervonbek on September 10, 2021, 08:49:18 AM
Put all the historic stuff once at the start then give page numbers for the army lists.

The army lists are bookmarked (this is true of the current list sets).  Use the PDF bookmark facility to go to the list you want.

It is not practical to generate page numbers.

Richard
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: lionheartrjc on September 10, 2021, 01:17:01 PM
Quote from: steads on September 10, 2021, 09:43:53 AM
Quote from: SteveO on September 10, 2021, 12:54:49 AM
I like the idea of all three versions of a list being grouped together so you only need one set of the historical notes.

This will be really unpopular with those of us who want to give an army list sheet to our opponent at a competition.

Don't quite understand this comment.  You will still be able to print out just one list of one type, e.g. Maximus list for Army X.

Richard
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: Rittervonbek on September 10, 2021, 01:38:53 PM
Book marks in pdf? My bad.  Back to school with me....

:-[
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: Glactophagos on September 10, 2021, 02:57:40 PM
Quote from: badhabum on September 09, 2021, 07:41:23 PM
People playing maximus will tell you once is enough, but pacto players will like to have the comments under their own lists ..so repeat it for all lists

From a former manual-writers point of view (user friendliness being the issue) I have to agree wholeheartedly with this.
People's brains just don't work that way. If the information they don't think or know they need is not right in front of them, they won't go looking for it.
List checkers will go crazy having to point stuff out to players.
Don't go there, There be Dragons... no really.  :(

Cavi
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: lionheartrjc on September 10, 2021, 04:03:06 PM
Quote from: Cavillarius on September 10, 2021, 02:57:40 PM
Quote from: badhabum on September 09, 2021, 07:41:23 PM
People playing maximus will tell you once is enough, but pacto players will like to have the comments under their own lists ..so repeat it for all lists

From a former manual-writers point of view (user friendliness being the issue) I have to agree wholeheartedly with this.
People's brains just don't work that way. If the information they don't think or know they need is not right in front of them, they won't go looking for it.
List checkers will go crazy having to point stuff out to players.
Don't go there, There be Dragons... no really.  :(

Cavi

Everything to do with building an army will be in the one place.   It is only the historical bits which don't affect building the army.
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: Glactophagos on September 10, 2021, 04:23:53 PM
OK, well in that case be prepared for many people simply never reading it, which is a shame, even if it is not a problem for list checkers...
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: nikgaukroger on September 10, 2021, 04:32:18 PM
Quote from: Cavillarius on September 10, 2021, 04:23:53 PM
OK, well in that case be prepared for many people simply never reading it, which is a shame, even if it is not a problem for list checkers...

We're quite used to people not reading stuff - things like the rules, clarifications, list notes and the like  ;)  ;)
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: SteveO on September 11, 2021, 12:35:49 AM
I don't think people read the 'historical bits' when handed a list by their opponent for a game. They are normally read at one's leisure when considering an army to collect, researching a campaign or the like. Consequently, there would not be much impact on game play. That's why I still like the idea of putting all three versions together with one set of historical notes.
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: Glactophagos on September 11, 2021, 09:58:03 AM
Quote from: SteveO on September 11, 2021, 12:35:49 AM
That's why I still like the idea of putting all three versions together with one set of historical notes.

So a chapter per army starting with the historical info, and then max, mag and pacto lists respectively (or in reverse order)? I'd like that very much!
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: badhabum on September 11, 2021, 04:10:29 PM
Quote from: lionheartrjc on September 10, 2021, 04:03:06 PM
Quote from: Cavillarius on September 10, 2021, 02:57:40 PM
Quote from: badhabum on September 09, 2021, 07:41:23 PM
People playing maximus will tell you once is enough, but pacto players will like to have the comments under their own lists ..so repeat it for all lists

From a former manual-writers point of view (user friendliness being the issue) I have to agree wholeheartedly with this.
People's brains just don't work that way. If the information they don't think or know they need is not right in front of them, they won't go looking for it.
List checkers will go crazy having to point stuff out to players.
Don't go there, There be Dragons... no really.  :(

Cavi

Everything to do with building an army will be in the one place.   It is only the historical bits which don't affect building the army.

In my job I have to write lots of notes for people . And from experience if it is not under their nose, they will not read it. So it is your choice but the lists are in PDF, so where is the problem repeating it all for all 3 maximus, Magna or Pacto ?

Ask yourself the question : how many times do people check the beginning of the army lists book and ask how it works with allied generals ...it's there in the very beginning ..but not always read !

So if you want something to be read and usefull, just repeat it
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: steads on September 11, 2021, 04:22:20 PM
Quote from: lionheartrjc on September 10, 2021, 01:17:01 PM
Quote from: steads on September 10, 2021, 09:43:53 AM
Quote from: SteveO on September 10, 2021, 12:54:49 AM
I like the idea of all three versions of a list being grouped together so you only need one set of the historical notes.

This will be really unpopular with those of us who want to give an army list sheet to our opponent at a competition.
Don't quite understand this comment.  You will still be able to print out just one list of one type, e.g. Maximus list for Army X.
So are you going to start each different game type army list on a new page? If so then my point is mute but it does mean that I have to scroll through 3 times as much material to get to the list I am looking at.
I was going to suggest splitting each army book into three documents: one for each scale of game. This would make for a much bigger admin overhead (3 times as many books to publish on the website) but a much easier user experience (smaller files and no danger of scrolling past into the next scale of game).
A Table of Contents (as a table perhaps) with pre-set bookmarks would be an alternative enhancement for the user experience with no extra website admin.
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: Gower on September 11, 2021, 05:59:57 PM
Is it not possible to place what is in effect a hyper link to the army history below each list, so a click and you are there, or place each version of the list in succession and the history below.

Wayne
Title: Re: Opinions Sought
Post by: lionheartrjc on September 12, 2021, 01:02:51 PM
Quote from: Gower on September 11, 2021, 05:59:57 PM
Is it not possible to place what is in effect a hyper link to the army history below each list, so a click and you are there, or place each version of the list in succession and the history below.

Wayne

The PDF bookmarks are, in effect, hyperlinks so going to the history will be a case of finding the bookmark and clicking on it.

After various tests the solution I will go with is to include the history section at the beginning of each individual Maximus list.  The Magna and Pacto lists will not have the history section, but the introduction will explain how to use the bookmarks.

So a list set will consist of:

Introduction
Maximus Calculating Points
Maximus lists - each list preceded by its history section
Magna Calculating Points
Magna lists
Pacto Calculating Points
Pacto lists

If anyone wants to contribute to any  of the history sections - please contact me directly.

Richard