MeG

Author's Section => Rules Queries and Clarifications => Topic started by: AjojMajoj on July 31, 2021, 12:03:23 AM

Title: Cantabrian pushed back
Post by: AjojMajoj on July 31, 2021, 12:03:23 AM
Do I understand it correctly, that whenever an enemy TuG pushes back my SuG in cantabrian, the latter reverts to normal formation, and, if already moved, the SuG shoots as experienced in the next turn, because it can get back into cantabrian only when moving?
Title: Re: Cantabrian pushed back
Post by: lionheartrjc on July 31, 2021, 08:42:53 AM
No.  The latter stays in Cantabrian (nothing in the rules says it reverts to normal formation).  If the push back forces it to exceed its normal movement in Cantabrian then it would have to take a KaB test. 

Richard
Title: Re: Cantabrian pushed back
Post by: nikgaukroger on July 31, 2021, 09:00:13 AM
Not sure you are right Richard.

The Characteristics description of Cantabrian says "If contacted they immediately revert to normal formation" - point 5.

In the section on pushing back enemy SUGS Page 111 I.5 says "Otherwise, if your TUG contacts and enemy SUG during its first move ..." - my emphasis in bold.

So contact is mentioned. It is also mentioned later in the section.
Title: Re: Cantabrian pushed back
Post by: lionheartrjc on July 31, 2021, 09:52:41 AM
I think this is poor wording in the rulebook and not the intent.  I think it should say "would contact".   The push back is in essence an outcome to avoid contact...

If the intention is otherwise, then I have been playing the rule wrong for 5 years (including against Simon H) and it has never been picked up.

Richard
Title: Re: Cantabrian pushed back
Post by: nikgaukroger on July 31, 2021, 10:19:59 AM
IMO the wording is pretty clear and contacts/contacted used throughout and so it should be played that way - and like you I am sure I have played in incorrectly to date as well, but that isn't a reason for not playing it as written in future.

FWIW I have no problem with skirmishers in Cantabrian being disrupted by being pushed back so that they are no longer in the formation - if they have not yet moved themselves they could subsequently make a move and return to the formation (cards/discs allowing).

Quote from: lionheartrjc on July 31, 2021, 09:52:41 AM
If the intention is otherwise, then I have been playing the rule wrong for 5 years (including against Simon H) and it has never been picked up.

Well we all know about authors and their own rules ...  ;D
Title: Re: Cantabrian pushed back
Post by: AjojMajoj on August 01, 2021, 12:46:26 AM
Quote from: lionheartrjc on July 31, 2021, 09:52:41 AM
I think this is poor wording in the rulebook and not the intent.

You might be right about the intention, however wording is only one thing. The pictures on pg. 112 clearly show "point of first contact".
Title: Re: Cantabrian pushed back
Post by: lionheartrjc on August 01, 2021, 07:59:31 AM
Fair comments.
Title: Re: Cantabrian pushed back
Post by: lionheartrjc on August 02, 2021, 08:26:16 AM
Simon Hall has been consulted.  An errata will be issued making it clear that a SuG in Cantabrian formation that is pushed back remains in Cantabrian formation.

Richard
Title: Re: Cantabrian pushed back
Post by: nikgaukroger on August 02, 2021, 10:14:26 AM
Included in the latest errata and clarifications - https://lurkio.co.uk/meg/meg/wp-content/uploads/MEG2021/MeG%20Clarifications%20v6%2002-08-2021.pdf
Title: Re: Cantabrian pushed back
Post by: Francis Small on August 02, 2021, 05:08:02 PM
Quote from: lionheartrjc on July 31, 2021, 08:42:53 AM
No.  The latter stays in Cantabrian (nothing in the rules says it reverts to normal formation).  If the push back forces it to exceed its normal movement in Cantabrian then it would have to take a KaB test. 

Richard

So if you push back a mounted SuG in cantabrian more than 5 BW it takes a KaB instead of the normal 6 BW? I could make a clever legalese argument involving the movement reduction for Cantabrian only affecting prompted moves blah blah blah, but if it affects push-back distances as well I'll go with the flow, so to speak.
Title: Re: Cantabrian pushed back
Post by: badhabum on August 02, 2021, 05:34:10 PM
Quote from: Francis Small on August 02, 2021, 05:08:02 PM
Quote from: lionheartrjc on July 31, 2021, 08:42:53 AM
No.  The latter stays in Cantabrian (nothing in the rules says it reverts to normal formation).  If the push back forces it to exceed its normal movement in Cantabrian then it would have to take a KaB test. 

Richard

So if you push back a mounted SuG in cantabrian more than 5 BW it takes a KaB instead of the normal 6 BW? I could make a clever legalese argument involving the movement reduction for Cantabrian only affecting prompted moves blah blah blah, but if it affects push-back distances as well I'll go with the flow, so to speak.

As a SK will not be pushed by an SK AND considering that the max speed of a TUG ( mounted ) is 5 there should be no problems at all  8)
Title: Re: Cantabrian pushed back
Post by: Francis Small on August 02, 2021, 07:07:53 PM
The sign of a committed rules lawyer is that they are willing to argue any point - no matter how obscure or inconsequential.  And, hey, you could have camels pushing back horsies in sand dunes!