MeG

Author's Section => Rules Queries and Clarifications => Topic started by: badhabum on July 19, 2021, 11:19:12 AM

Title: charge and push forward
Post by: badhabum on July 19, 2021, 11:19:12 AM
A nellie TUG, 4 strongh deployed in a single line. They charge and one onf the nellies is shot to death leaving 2 bases on one side and a lone base on the other . The 2 bases make contact, then there is a gap where the killed nellie base was and finally our lone nellie that contacts no one but if it steps forward it contacts a new enemy ( juicy one as they are mounted lancers )

So may that base make a push forward  ?
Title: Re: charge and push forward
Post by: lionheartrjc on July 19, 2021, 01:28:07 PM
Cannot see any reason why it wouldn't.  Indeed page 131 says it must press forward.

Richard
Title: Re: charge and push forward
Post by: nikgaukroger on July 19, 2021, 02:49:43 PM
I'd ask why when being shot at, albeit in a charge, the nellies become an illegal formation - that can only happen in combat (and the contracting when charging exception) and they are not yet in combat when being shot at whilst charging.
Title: Re: charge and push forward
Post by: badhabum on July 19, 2021, 03:14:23 PM
Quote from: nikgaukroger on July 19, 2021, 02:49:43 PM
I'd ask why when being shot at, albeit in a charge, the nellies become an illegal formation - that can only happen in combat (and the contracting when charging exception) and they are not yet in combat when being shot at whilst charging.

They lost the base while charging and being shot at before making contact .

PG 80 it is stated that you reform immediatly after being free from a combat  and before pursuing ..but here it is a charge phase before combat

So what is the intend ?

If a UG takes loses while charging in and is one rank deep only , does it close ranks if it looses bases or not ?
Title: Re: charge and push forward
Post by: nikgaukroger on July 19, 2021, 03:46:50 PM
I'd ask a couple of further questions?

How would you deal with it in the shooting phase? Why would it be any different in this case given that at the point of shooting the unit is not in combat?
Title: Re: charge and push forward
Post by: badhabum on July 19, 2021, 07:35:14 PM
Well I would use a M1 move as it is not after combat
Title: Re: charge and push forward
Post by: tarnowski1 on July 19, 2021, 08:36:50 PM
Quote from: badhabum on July 19, 2021, 03:14:23 PM
Quote from: nikgaukroger on July 19, 2021, 02:49:43 PM
I'd ask why when being shot at, albeit in a charge, the nellies become an illegal formation - that can only happen in combat (and the contracting when charging exception) and they are not yet in combat when being shot at whilst charging.

They lost the base while charging and being shot at before making contact .

PG 80 it is stated that you reform immediatly after being free from a combat  and before pursuing ..but here it is a charge phase before combat

So what is the intend ?

If a UG takes loses while charging in and is one rank deep only , does it close ranks if it looses bases or not ?

I may be missing a subtlety here but you cant remove a base casualty from shooting if it would create an illegal formation so there would never be a need to reform from shooting. p84 5.2 shooting in charge phase use the same mechanisms as the shooting phase.  In your example an elephant from one end of the line would have had to have been removed to maintain the legal formation.
Title: Re: charge and push forward
Post by: nikgaukroger on July 19, 2021, 09:07:14 PM
Quote from: tarnowski1 on July 19, 2021, 08:36:50 PM
I may be missing a subtlety here but you cant remove a base casualty from shooting if it would create an illegal formation so there would never be a need to reform from shooting. p84 5.2 shooting in charge phase use the same mechanisms as the shooting phase.  In your example an elephant from one end of the line would have had to have been removed to maintain the legal formation.

My understanding as well.

However, to be fair I am not sure that it is entirely explicit in the rules - but would suggest that it is implicit that you can only have gaps when in combat from the Formations in Combat section on page 98 and the legal formations diagrams on page 97.

Title: Re: charge and push forward
Post by: nikgaukroger on July 19, 2021, 09:08:25 PM
Quote from: badhabum on July 19, 2021, 07:35:14 PM
Well I would use a M1 move as it is not after combat

Leaving aside my last post I think the M1 idea could be stymied as arguably you'd be changing the frontage albeit 1 BW is blank  ;)
Title: Re: charge and push forward
Post by: nikgaukroger on July 19, 2021, 09:14:24 PM
Quote from: nikgaukroger on July 19, 2021, 09:07:14 PM
Quote from: tarnowski1 on July 19, 2021, 08:36:50 PM
I may be missing a subtlety here but you cant remove a base casualty from shooting if it would create an illegal formation so there would never be a need to reform from shooting. p84 5.2 shooting in charge phase use the same mechanisms as the shooting phase.  In your example an elephant from one end of the line would have had to have been removed to maintain the legal formation.

My understanding as well.

However, to be fair I am not sure that it is entirely explicit in the rules - but would suggest that it is implicit that you can only have gaps when in combat from the Formations in Combat section on page 98 and the legal formations diagrams on page 97.

Recalled that this has been asked about before and Si's answer was "Yes can't remove one that creates a gap if not in combat. Take another base."
Title: Re: charge and push forward
Post by: lionheartrjc on July 20, 2021, 06:38:53 AM
I was looking at the press forward thing.  I agree that if a casualty is caused prior to moving the chargers into combat then a gap cannot be created, so the casualty would have to be removed from one of the ends.

Richard
Title: Re: charge and push forward
Post by: badhabum on July 21, 2021, 12:35:35 PM
OK so now it is clear