I'm curious about how Devastating charger is costed, because it seems like a weaker rule for mounted units than infantry, (max of +1 bonus for mounted, pikes and long spears are much more common than charging lancers) but it seems, percentage wise, to cost the same mounted and unmounted(mounted pays more in hard numbers). For example, formed loose average protected infantry cost 60 without, 70 with, a 16% increase, and formed loose average protected cavalry cost 80 without, 93 with, also 16%. It seems like the cavalry pays too much for a worse ability?
If that bothers you, check out the usefulness and costs for foot and mounted melee expert!
Such comparisons aren't, however, always valid.
Martin
I'll agree that mounted melee expert is more restricted, but at least both versions have the same bonus. There is a massive difference between +2 and +1 in this game.
Edit: For the record, the melee expert came in at +26% infantry /+28% cavalry.
Comparaison n'est pas raison
or comparing is difficult
Mounted DC are more mobile for one thing, they will often combine DC with short spear and even CL or mostly cats LS which makes them quite good !
DC retains it's DC value in terrain which other mounted do not and mounted DC vs foot DC is ..equal so mobility is important !
Mounted DC keep their +1 vs CL, foot DC do not but foot DC are better vs pikes or foot LS ..so who is better who is worst ?
Many foot DC are tribal, mounted Dc are formed sometimes even drilled so better or worst ?
Surely all of those bonuses apply their own percentage modifiers to cost though? At least in my mind, I see the +2 on the foot version and the +1 on the mounted version and can't help but think that against most units (read infantry) it's half as good, and often worse. I'm not saying it should be half as expensive, but that is a pretty huge difference.
You forget mobility
Mobility is taken into account by the higher base cost that all cavalry have. And again, I'm not saying that mobility shouldn't effect the devastating charger multiplier, but I'm not sure it should double it. Again, mounted devastating charger is worse against all infantry and battlwagons. Better specifically against charging lancer mounted UGs in the open. That is really lopsided.
QuoteAgain, mounted devastating charger is worse against all infantry and battlwagons
Worse than what ( mounted LS are different from foot LS and CL does not exist as foot , and pikes do not exist as mounted so what ? )
I play the MEG rules and the army lists as they are !
I don't care if some are 10% or 20% , I play what please me at one moment and get to something different (not better or worse), just for the pleasure to paint and use new armies and types of troops.
I 'm certainly more a "painter" than a "competitor", I prefer to play with my partner(not an opponent in my point of view) and have fun when I'm in tournament.
try to have fun and put colours in your wargaming life ;)
Kind regards.
PUNCH "Judy no more!"
Quote from: badhabum on May 14, 2021, 04:49:12 PM
QuoteAgain, mounted devastating charger is worse against all infantry and battlwagons
Worse than what ( mounted LS are different from foot LS and CL does not exist as foot , and pikes do not exist as mounted so what ? )
It's worse than foot devastating charger most of the time, that is what I am comparing it to.
Quote from: PUNCH on May 14, 2021, 05:08:55 PM
I play the MEG rules and the army lists as they are !
I don't care if some are 10% or 20% , I play what please me at one moment and get to something different (not better or worse), just for the pleasure to paint and use new armies and types of troops.
I 'm certainly more a "painter" than a "competitor", I prefer to play with my partner(not an opponent in my point of view) and have fun when I'm in tournament.
try to have fun and put colours in your wargaming life ;)
Kind regards.
PUNCH "Judy no more!"
Ah, but you see, I am bored and want to discuss gaming minutiae.
Quote from: Agoz on May 14, 2021, 08:01:22 PM
Quote from: PUNCH on May 14, 2021, 05:08:55 PM
I play the MEG rules and the army lists as they are !
I don't care if some are 10% or 20% , I play what please me at one moment and get to something different (not better or worse), just for the pleasure to paint and use new armies and types of troops.
I 'm certainly more a "painter" than a "competitor", I prefer to play with my partner(not an opponent in my point of view) and have fun when I'm in tournament.
try to have fun and put colours in your wargaming life ;)
Kind regards.
PUNCH "Judy no more!"
Ah, but you see, I am bored and want to discuss gaming minutiae.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Mounted devastating charger is particularly poor value on anything that loses evade by having it (bow armed chariots for example). Really should be free in that case.
You could also argue it is less good value on anything that already gets shatter (eg lancers)
I have, however, played African Vandal a bit (an army of spear, dev charger cav) and I find it pretty good (if a little one dimensional)
Martin
Quote from: Agoz on May 14, 2021, 06:34:23 PM
Quote from: badhabum on May 14, 2021, 04:49:12 PM
QuoteAgain, mounted devastating charger is worse against all infantry and battlwagons
Worse than what ( mounted LS are different from foot LS and CL does not exist as foot , and pikes do not exist as mounted so what ? )
It's worse than foot devastating charger most of the time, that is what I am comparing it to.
You cannot compare foot DC and mounted DC ! They are not the same . Different type of units, different use, different armies ...
Do you compare foot LS and mounted LS ?
Foot pikes to mounted CL ?
You could compare mounted CL and mounted DC
But you try to compare apples and pears it is impossible to do except by considering them as 2 different type of units with different rules, and different way of doing things . Compare mounted and I would say that CL are overprised if compared to mounted DC or DC + Short Spear as they are less efficient vs PA and in terrain ..
FOOT DC, formed loose and protected is 70 points
MOUNTED CL, formed loose and protected is 105 points ( needs open terrain )
MOUNTED DC + spear , formed loose and protected is 103 points ( does not need open terrain and is better than CL vs foot PA ) does not need open terrain but gives a +2 as CL
MOUNTED DC , formed loose and protected : 93 points