I would like to ask for clarification of what seems to be conflicting rules relating to block moves.
According to the Compendium:
"No files in the block may move further than their maximum move distance, and all
TuGs follow the same action, limited by the speed of the slowest if the move keeps
them in the same block throughout. In most cases this is obvious but for some moves
it takes a bit of thought"
According to Si's tutorial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_orIK4yRFg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_orIK4yRFg) the block is fragmented at the end of the 'block move'.
In this topic https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1775.0 (https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1775.0) Steads admitted that 'Si has done that to him' ::)
I am not a native English speaker but some of those guys here https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/throughout (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/throughout) probably are and according to them 'throughout' means 'in every part, or during the whole period of time', which in result leads me to a conclusion that all UGs performing a block move must be also at least in partial contact at the end of the move. Or perhaps I misunderstood the whole sentence from the Compendium which I marked above.
In case it is ruled that UGs do not have to be in a contact at the end of a block move please confirm what is situation while performing M14 double move, i.e. if UGs must be in contact only at the beginning of the whole M14 or they must also be in contact at the beginning of the second 'consecutive' green/white move ?
Additional issue is related to position of SUGs tugged by TUGs while executing M9 and M11 block moves. Lets refer to the diagram on page 108 of the Compendium and assume that there is one SUG ahead of each of the TUG (so 2 SUGs in total). Where the SUGs can be placed after the M11 block move is performed as in the diagram ? Anywhere in contact with a TUG ?
What would be the rule in case there are not 2 but 3 or 4 TUGs (each with a SUG ahead, assume TUGs being cavalry or fleet of foot) executing the M11 block move as in the diagram ?
Cheers, Chris
Quote from: KaVoo on April 25, 2021, 10:42:31 PM
I would like to ask for clarification of what seems to be conflicting rules relating to block moves.
According to the Compendium:
"No files in the block may move further than their maximum move distance, and all
TuGs follow the same action, limited by the speed of the slowest if the move keeps
them in the same block throughout. In most cases this is obvious but for some moves
it takes a bit of thought"
This means there are two cases allowed:
1. The move keeps them in the same block throughout. In this case all TUGs moves are limited by the speed of the slowest.
2. The TUGs split up at some point in the move (possibly re-combining into a block again at the end). In this case each TuG moves at its own speed.
LawrenceG thank you for input, but my questions were related not to the speed of each UG during the block move but rather if UGs must remain in touch at the end of the block move. And some other related issues.
Those issues remain still not clarified.
Chris
I have raised this issue with Simon and he is going to look at it when he has time. I think we will issue a clarification for all the different types of block move.
As I have said before, writing rules that say what you intend and people can't misinterpret is really hard!
Richard
Ok the concept is simple but I have put the complicated bit in and not the simple bit for which my apologies.
For a block move the entire block becomes a single item for the move - so take the rectangle around the UGs as the block and move that block as per the Prompted action table. So for instance, if doing an intercept some part of the rectangle of UGs - the block - must fulfil the conditions of the move. The rest go with it. So imagine a general giving a single order to the entire block "entire line wheel to the right; entire line fall bac; left unit charge and rest of line keep pace with them to cover their flanks, etc."
There are two types of exceptions.
1) You can't block move MF1 and MF2 micro-moves or do block E1 recoveries (this latter slipped in late as I added it to the PAS table and missed adding the exception to the relevant page).
2) Turn 90 actions where the move can break the original block apart and all UG follow the same move individually, which may allow them to reblock.
Will issue and errata for (1) and a clarry for the lot.
Just a little additional query. If you have a block of three TUGS (all in a line) can you do a block expand (M7). I always thought not because the middle unit has nowhere to expand to. But it sounds like you consider the whole block as one so perhaps you can. The middle unit might still take part by redressing ranks but probably wouldn't. It is not an important point - probably means sometimes spending Green + Yellow rather than Yellow + Yellow (so more of a thought experiment really).
It seems that based on other examples you could. I can't remember the context, but I recall that you could do a block halt charge even if all the UGs didn't have a forced charge, or a block deploy stakes even if all the UGs weren't equipped were stakes, that sort of thing.
Yes Francis I did ask the question for the forced charge and the answer was you may blok it but remember you stay in the rectangle, same for deploying stakes what about expanding ? you go out of the rectangle on both wings ...
Simon says:
QuoteFor a block move the entire block becomes a single item for the move
thank you for clarification, this is the precise wording we were starving for :)
My middle question is answered as well.
I would be grateful for some clues as to my last question, namely:
QuoteAdditional issue is related to position of SUGs tugged by TUGs while executing M9 and M11 block moves. Lets refer to the diagram on page 108 of the Compendium and assume that there is one SUG ahead of each of the TUG (so 2 SUGs in total). Where the SUGs can be placed after the M11 block move is performed as in the diagram ? Anywhere in contact with a TUG ?
What would be the rule in case there are not 2 but 3 or 4 TUGs (each with a SUG ahead, assume TUGs being cavalry or fleet of foot) executing the M11 block move as in the diagram ?
cheers, Chris
QuoteI would be grateful for some clues as to my last question, namely:
Quote
Additional issue is related to position of SUGs tugged by TUGs while executing M9 and M11 block moves. Lets refer to the diagram on page 108 of the Compendium and assume that there is one SUG ahead of each of the TUG (so 2 SUGs in total). Where the SUGs can be placed after the M11 block move is performed as in the diagram ? Anywhere in contact with a TUG ?
What would be the rule in case there are not 2 but 3 or 4 TUGs (each with a SUG ahead, assume TUGs being cavalry or fleet of foot) executing the M11 block move as in the diagram ?
You may advance, go back, wheel and drag your SK along ( push or pull )
But not a 90 or 180 turn as you do not push or pull the SUG. But you may displace it out of the way if necessary