There has been some great feedback on FB about how great the game is, and how easy a read it is in language. But some constructive criticism about the structure and that it could be better.
As ever keen to learn and develop. So please post comments here for me to consolidate.
Examples of choices made that could be chosen differently:
a) Extensive intro chapters pre the rules. Good or bad? Keep all. Shift some to back of book? Drop some entirely?
b) Following phases - so shooting at chargers in the charge phase. Would it be better to have not phases but actions. So CHARGES and SHOOTING with shooting at chargers in the latter with all other shooting.
All feedback welcome. But best with examples and suggestions so Ic an garner more skills in it for the future.
Or it may just be some like one and others another...
The good news of course is the great game and well written is much more important.
Si
Si
It's great as it is SI. You've played a blinder lad!
I mentioned it on Facebook, but an index of keywords with page references would really make both learning and teaching the game much easier. It'd also be nice to have a complete summary of Pacto changes or the Pacto QRS included in the book.
Edit: As far as the actual structure of the book goes, I might suggest moving chapter 8 "Playing a Turn" after 9.8. Since the chapter is basically a truncated version of everything written in chapter 9 it doesn't make a whole lot of sense reading it if you haven't read through 9.1-9.8. I remember reading through it my first time through the book and not absorbing any of it because it referenced rules I hadn't read yet. Which lead to me being more confused later than I perhaps would have been if I had gotten more out of chapter 8.
Edit Edit: Maybe also move chapter 7 to after chapter 8 and 9 setting up terrain and deploying armies as something that a player is going to do after they've already created an army list; which in and of itself requires having read and understood chapter 9.
Thanks for those Agoz.
imlet this run a bit and see what else comes up.
Si
FrancisSmall made a great guide for Passing through that needs to be checked.
Topic: Guide to Passing Through Friends : https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1712.msg13036#msg13036
Rephrasing "9.3 H: Passing Through Friends." using Simon's answer in "Topic: Passing through Friends" plus adding the table in the above "Topic: Guide to Passing Through Friends" would surely facilitate comprehension.
Edouard
I have to agree about the index. That would really help to find things quicker.
Index? Somebody mentioned an index? ::)
I attached a copy of the index I did for DBM in a previous lifetime. This is an "expanded" index - with extensive cross-referencing and even tries to summarize the rule if simple enough. When I posted it on the DBM discussion board I got back exactly zero feedback, so I don't know if players found it useful or not. I still have the code (Perl, Word template with VBA) lying around that I used to generate the document from a data input file. Something to think about for MeG?
[attachment deleted by admin]
I think the current structure is fine. What the rules could use to bring it to the next level is a comprehensive top-level edit. I know a great deal of effort was put into proofreading the rules by the community (as described to me one of the editors), but proofing by sections has its limitations which is demonstrated by the current edition. Specifically, the numerous errors in cross-sectional references (about three dozen of these at my count), as well as a general tendency for some rules to be scattered throughout the rulebook and inconsistently stated in different sections. (Example 1: Procedural rules for aligning are on p.135 - but fail to include the 2 BW movement restriction on non-front bases which is only mentioned in the glossary entry for "align". Example 2: The rules for displacing friendly SuGs are described on both p. 80 and p. 114, but p. 80 fails to specify that you can't move the SuG so that it can charge a new enemy SuG. The rule on p. 80 tries to reference p. 114 - but the reference is to the wrong section.)
Some sections also need a re-write for clarity. To name a few, the passing through rules need to be redone. I think Nik or Richard said half his in-game questions are for aligning so that should be looked into. The rules on supporting files are difficult to grasp for non-standard alignments and I think could be greatly simplified if I understand them correctly.
Finally, a fine-tooth examination of the rules would correct errors such as the incorrect paragraph numbering on pp. 128-129, missing rules for stunned generals after p. 93, and apparently missing rules on how you can't have supporting files against barricades among others.
It would be best if someone other than the author be in charge of this, simply because the rules author is necessarily too close to their work. You really need a fresh brain that hasn't been steeped in the ruleset for years.
And one last comment....
THANKS FOR A BOFFO SET OF RULES SIMON!!!
The above comments can be filed under "Quibbles". I really like MeG, and look forward to playing it more when the covid times are past us.
Ambushes : the rule for ambushes PG181 fails to be as precise as PG 69 Deployment zone where it is specified that ambushes allows TUG to be deployed in the outer 5 BW .
I have created an index for the MeG rules. It currently runs to 41 pages!
If Simon iis okay with it I hope it can be posted on the website.
Richard
Any luck with posting the index?
yes please, an index would be very helpful !
It will be up on the Mortem et Gloriam website very soon.
Richard
Agree totally with the comments posted by Francis. Plus, include ALL the ACTUAL terrain sizes for each of the game sizes in the book rather than have to flick through the book to find only the 10BW x 10BW size being mentioned, then to go to the terrain QRS to find it only then to be told you have divide the terrain sizes by 2/3 and round up for Magna. Far better to have all the actual terrain sizes in the book. The QRS should be a summary of what's in the rule book, not a replacement for it.
Quote from: Plantagenet on October 24, 2021, 07:12:15 AM
Agree totally with the comments posted by Francis. Plus, include ALL the ACTUAL terrain sizes for each of the game sizes in the book rather than have to flick through the book to find only the 10BW x 10BW size being mentioned, then to go to the terrain QRS to find it only then to be told you have divide the terrain sizes by 2/3 and round up for Magna. Far better to have all the actual terrain sizes in the book. The QRS should be a summary of what's in the rule book, not a replacement for it.
We could do that but the philosophy was different when set up. hence the refer to QRS as you go through the rules. All the tables are in the book now of course.
Not sure if this is rule book structure feedback per se. But I just spent the last week or so designing about 10 different armies and ultimately selecting 2 of them for a solo game. I am a complete n00b to both MeG and wargaming (play lots of board games however), so I'll give feedback on where I got tripped up/still have questions. I did get clarifications on most things without having to search the internet.
Army creation: I designed about 10 different armies from several different list books (armies that were all active around the randomly chosen year 49CE.) Lots of variation of fighting styles even if some of the lists didn't have a lot of room for creativity. The point system is very well balanced making for all kinds of agonizing decisions, and I think I could just have fun sitting around all day designing armies. The only thing I found confusing was the difference between internal and external allies, a couple of concrete examples at the beginning of the list pdfs would be perfect to clear that up.
Basing system: extraordinarily cool and straight forward, I created my own basing system to fit my office desk and created paper bases of the correct size.
PBS: fun little starter mini game, no points of confusion here the walk through with examples is great.
Charging: the book has quite a few examples which were helpful the cover most of the basic cases. I struggled with combining with moving through friends + the possibility of slowing fire. Also with the timing of moves (charges, counter charges and intercepts). Would love to see an end 2 end example of an entire charge phase like the PBS.
Movement: a fairly meaty topic I feel is well covered by the manual, I am pretty sure a messed up some of the MF movements, and it isn't clear to me if you can just bump into an enemy unit and start combat without a charge, I played it as if that weren't possible, as it seemed wrong.
Melee: this was all pretty well laid out in the manual as well with lots of good examples.
charge/melee/shooting Claims in the QRS: I am pretty sure I missed a bunch of these, largely due to the abbreviation system, which probably should be at the bottom of the QRS. I spent a bunch of the game thinking CL meant close formation instead of charging lancer.
Hopefully that is helpful. I really enjoyed playing with the system.
I am not new to wargaming but still to MeG. I repeatedly tried to study the rules, but text arrangement hinders an easy reading.
As with all other rulesets, you cannot play with the reference sheet only, you need to understand to mechanism, terms and definition behind. And these must be written and structured in an easy and clear way. MeG rulebook is by far not.
You cannot only leave the rulebook at home and play with the QRS, as you say, as long you are not an experienced player (and even those have to read details in the book).
Rule study is for rookies an huge challenge:
- Chapter structuring: for example when explaining the shooting, better describe the basics, then troop specifics, then the exceptions.
- Book text looks very overloaded, reading is tiring (in particular for non-English-mother-tongue readers), and confusing - use clear separations and more logical enumerations.
- The Errata, as part of the rulebook: The release of the rulebook was not long ago. But the errata has reached a volume that indicates to some serious problems with the rule texting and proof reading (also wrong cross-references, see topic in the forum).
I thought it was a good idea to insert somehow manually the corrections into the rulebook in order to avoid scroll back and forth - it is a nogo as there are neither chapter nor page references in the errata. To waste 5 min. in a tournament game just for rule searching?
Better to re-edit and reprint the rulebook with the aim that no multiple page errata.
It'd be nice if each page had a footer listing which chapter you are in. To make flipping to sections easier.