I'm looking at MEG with great interest.
My little group & I are long term Field of Glory players. We field a variety of Bronze Age & Punic armies.
What I'm trying to find out is if these existing armies can be shoe horned into MEG?
There's two issues: our existing unit sizes sometimes vary from the MEG army lists eg we might have 4 bases of light cavalry when the lists state 6.
Secondly, types of figures. EG an army list might specify javelin armed skirmishers when we have bow armed.
We are not tournament gamers. I do not particularly wish to embark upon a program of adding a number of bases to existing armies & discarding units on anything like a large scale.
So: how flexible is MEG on this issue?
donald
My group transitioned from FoG to MeG (via ADLG).
The number of figures/bases required for a MeG Maximus game is broadly similar but does vary a bit depending on list and how you collected your armies (ie do you get the bare minimum necessary to play or do you cover all possibilities for a list). I did expand my collection to make a number of armies suitable for MeG Maximus.
If you don't want to do this I would suggest playing Magna as it is a similar game and your FoG armies will comfortably cover the models provided.
Martin
I'd agree, the middle scale version of MEG, Magna, sounds about right for you, it's 2/3 the number of bases as the main game. Second, if your friends are comfortable with it, its not going to break the game if you fudge the numbers a bit on what units are available. The army builder spreadsheet will comfortably calculate points for whatever unit you want to put into a list for you. I did a test game where I replayed Alexander's first battle against the Thracians and added tribal versions of scythed chariots to the Thracian list to represent the rock filled carts that they rolled towards the phalanx. The spreadsheet calculated them at 62 points and the game played fine.
Edit: What I mean to say is the army builder doesn't enforce the army list restrictions found in the various period lists.
Quote from: Agoz on April 18, 2021, 03:19:05 AM
I'd agree, the middle scale version of MEG, Magna, sounds about right for you, it's 2/3 the number of bases as the main game. Second, if your friends are comfortable with it, its not going to break the game if you fudge the numbers a bit on what units are available. The army builder spreadsheet will comfortably calculate points for whatever unit you want to put into a list for you. I did a test game where I replayed Alexander's first battle against the Thracians and added tribal versions of scythed chariots to the Thracian list to represent the rock filled carts that they rolled towards the phalanx. The spreadsheet calculated them at 62 points and the game played fine.
Edit: What I mean to say is the army builder doesn't enforce the army list restrictions found in the various period lists.
Thanks, gentlemen. That's what I wanted to hear. Your replies are much appreciated.
I think the next step is seeking out some games being played on You tube (if such exist).
When we changed our Napoleonic rules, watching games on You tube is what decided us on General d'Armee. The price of the MeG box isn't excessive but it's considerable & I want to be fairly sure I'll be using them before I buy.
I've been sending links, army lists, reviews to my pals. I don't mean to suggest they're not a great bunch but getting group agreement to change a rule set is not easy. We *know* FoG, we own the rule books & supplements. And FoG isn't fatally flawed or anything. It works....it's just it's a bit too ....mechanistic?....for my tastes.
So, if I have any more newbie questions I hope I won't bore you if I post them here.
donald
I don't think anyone on here is bothered by questions.
MeG is actually a pretty cheap one to get on board with because of all the army lists being free online.
I know what you mean about how games can be 'fine' but still lack something. I feel the same about ADLG. Nothing specifically wrong with it, I just find it kind of dull (and not enough models). For me MeG consistently creates fun/entertaining games and that counts for more than any other consideration
Martin.
OK a challenging question. Definitely not meant to be insulting or anything .
I have looked at the author playing a demo game involving Caesar & the Gauls:
https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/meg/other-useful-videos/
There are positives but I was a bit repelled by it.
It seemed a rather soulless, solo exercise. Additionally, he table is filled with playing aides: cards, speciality & D6 dice, charge markers & wound counters. Indeed, the focus seems very much on cards & dice & not so much on the figures. The spectacle aspect of the game is not helped by this being the 'Pacto' or small version.
I'm possibly being too hard. The positives are a very quick game & it seems fairly straight forward. There seems to be great opportunity for multi=player games with separate commands (very important for our small group).
I'll look at the magna (or medium sized game) tonight. In the mean time, please shoot me down & correct any misapprehensions I've displayed.
donald
Simon's videos are very useful for learning the rules. However as far as making the game look exciting, that's hard to do without an additional player for banter and close up camera shots. ;)
Fair comment.
donald
Quote from: ochoin on April 19, 2021, 12:01:50 AM
Additionally, he table is filled with playing aides: cards, speciality & D6 dice, charge markers & wound counters. Indeed, the focus seems very much on cards & dice & not so much on the figures.
donald
In FOG the table is filled with D6 dice and cohesion state markers. MeG cards are additional potential clutter (it's on you to keep them tidy) but I think you will probably have fewer dice on the table in total.
MeG is pretty much FoG with:
Instead of having to compare the number rolled on the combat dice with the "to hit" and/or "reroll" number, you just read off each dice whether it is 0, 1 or half a hit.
All "damage" is measured by base losses (instead of base losses plus cohesion state)
The "complex move roll" is replaced by the need to have particular cards which allows for more certainty in planning and decision-making.
If you like FoG you will probably like MeG and find it more mentally ergonomic. Once you get used to everything having its name changed (BG=UG, POA=claim, Cohesion test= KAb Test, light spear = short spear etc).
An important difference from FoG is that generals have to command specific troops and cannot just command anyone.
Quote from: lionheartrjc on April 19, 2021, 08:16:16 AM
An important difference from FoG is that generals have to command specific troops and cannot just command anyone.
Now this! is an important innovation. One of our number (ex-military) has long criticised FoG for commanders who can command anybody & it isn't really accurate so there's another reason for a change.
donald
Quote from: ochoin on April 19, 2021, 12:01:50 AM
OK a challenging question. Definitely not meant to be insulting or anything .
I have looked at the author playing a demo game involving Caesar & the Gauls:
https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/meg/other-useful-videos/
There are positives but I was a bit repelled by it.
It seemed a rather soulless, solo exercise. Additionally, he table is filled with playing aides: cards, speciality & D6 dice, charge markers & wound counters. Indeed, the focus seems very much on cards & dice & not so much on the figures. The spectacle aspect of the game is not helped by this being the 'Pacto' or small version.
I'm possibly being too hard. The positives are a very quick game & it seems fairly straight forward. There seems to be great opportunity for multi=player games with separate commands (very important for our small group).
I'll look at the magna (or medium sized game) tonight. In the mean time, please shoot me down & correct any misapprehensions I've displayed.
donald
Hello and welcome aboard.
The set you are buying had items which are designed to blend beatfully into the table top. I didn't have those when making that video. In addition, Pacto is the small version so the ratio of damage markers to troops is at its highest, it drops rapidl with Magna and largely disappears with Maximus. It's actually the same as Mortem et Gloriam with a cohesion marker per unit. Justin Pacto a unit is one file.
It comes alive with 2 players due to being interactive.
Hope that helps. And welcome aboard I hope.
Si
Thanks for the welcome. The website is a credit to you & my experience on the forum has been excellent.
I think I'm fine with everything but, as you'll appreciate, I have to get my pals on board. There's 6 of us & don't get me wrong they're good guys but I've been down the road of changing rule sets before (Napoleonic) & I know inertia is strong. We're in Brisbane, Australia so the historical gaming scene is quite small & as far as we're concerned, it's just us. I have to convince at least one other (and hopefully 4 or more) to buy the compendium to make it a viable decision. Purchase is not only important to run viable games but means a committent from the individual who has bought himself the rules.
For the past week I've already been sending them links, thoughts, questions etc to build momentum & make it a group decision. So far, the reaction has been sort of lukewarm-positive which isn't bad. I need to build on this.
donald
Hy,
I am also an old hand of FOG and switched to MEG in 2016,
If you want some idea of the difference of size between pacto and maximus you might have a look at my blog ( I do not play magna sorry )
We first used command cards, now the tokens and you will notice that the table is not full of useless things 8)
PACTO :
https://www.thelonesomewargamer.com/post/pacto-later-republican-romans-vs-early-germans
In general as most games are maximus :
https://www.thelonesomewargamer.com/
Anyway wathever your decision, welcome and enjoy the community , ( also on FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/763293233817810 )
Quote from: ochoin on April 19, 2021, 02:01:26 PM
Thanks for the welcome. The website is a credit to you & my experience on the forum has been excellent.
I think I'm fine with everything but, as you'll appreciate, I have to get my pals on board. There's 6 of us & don't get me wrong they're good guys but I've been down the road of changing rule sets before (Napoleonic) & I know inertia is strong. We're in Brisbane, Australia so the historical gaming scene is quite small & as far as we're concerned, it's just us. I have to convince at least one other (and hopefully 4 or more) to buy the compendium to make it a viable decision. Purchase is not only important to run viable games but means a committent from the individual who has bought himself the rules.
For the past week I've already been sending them links, thoughts, questions etc to build momentum & make it a group decision. So far, the reaction has been sort of lukewarm-positive which isn't bad. I need to build on this.
donald
Always happy to do an intro game on Zoom for you a a group and answer questions. Might just tip the balance. Si
Here and intro showing the essence of Mortem et Gloriam in 1 1unit vs 1 unit fight ... core of the rules in a. short video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpLL6LZjdS8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpLL6LZjdS8)
Si
Quote from: Simon Meg-Meister on April 20, 2021, 07:44:54 AM
Always happy to do an intro game on Zoom for you a a group and answer questions. Might just tip the balance. Si
That's very kind of you, Simon. As it's like herding cats to get the group all together, I'll probably pass.
However, I "found" your Magnesia video which I'm urging them to watch.
This one is a gem.
donald
I m also coming from FOG.
There are a lot of differences between both systems but the main one (to my eyes) is the fact that the active player change every action and not every round.
It makes the games much more intense as you are not player the army of your opponent but your opponent himself.
More bluff more fun
Quote from: Rino on April 21, 2021, 08:58:45 AM
I m also coming from FOG.
There are a lot of differences between both systems but the main one (to my eyes) is the fact that the active player change every action and not every round.
It makes the games much more intense as you are not player the army of your opponent but your opponent himself.
More bluff more fun
Also you don't have 20 minutes waiting around whilst your opponent makes all their moves, thinks for 4 minutes without doing anything, scratches their .... and all the other things that seem to slow a game down. The I move, you move within a phase definitely throws up some interesting choices. Can I discard or pass once to force my opponent to move a UG first.
Richard
100% agree on the intensity of the charges and movement sequences. its just more fun than FOG for me. That and the characteristics which - for - me bring the old armies to life on the table. And finally, the support from Si and the guys is second to none.
...... but FOG was great in the day.
Quote from: ochoin on April 17, 2021, 11:28:30 PM
I'm looking at MEG with great interest.
My little group & I are long term Field of Glory players. We field a variety of Bronze Age & Punic armies.
What I'm trying to find out is if these existing armies can be shoe horned into MEG?
There's two issues: our existing unit sizes sometimes vary from the MEG army lists eg we might have 4 bases of light cavalry when the lists state 6.
Secondly, types of figures. EG an army list might specify javelin armed skirmishers when we have bow armed.
We are not tournament gamers. I do not particularly wish to embark upon a program of adding a number of bases to existing armies & discarding units on anything like a large scale.
So: how flexible is MEG on this issue?
donald
Hello, I play mostly FOG (v3) and also some MeG (as a club player). In terms of your questions, I'm going to assume you'll want to use the largest version of the game as it's the best in terms of spectacle. Overall volume of bases on the table are similar to FoG 800 - 1000 points. What you'll probably see though is the sort of issue any change of rule set will give you - the exact number of bases you used for rule set A isn't optimal for rule set B, so you might find that a few bases don't get used any more. In the same way that my early Persian army has a single base of Hordes which were useful in DBM but have sat in the box since.
Unit sizes. For combat troops most foot are used in groups of 6 or 8 in MeG, that should fit well. Mounted is often in 6s if it's going to fight (heavy chariots, cavalry) often 4s if it's just going to occupy enemy attention. Note in MeG cavalry and light chariots can skirmish if they have any missile weapon, so check that when designing a list. In MeG skirmishers (SuGs - LF or LH) really need to be 3 deep so you'll have foot in 6s or 9s; mounted in 6s. You can have 2 deep but they're a bit of a liability as they shoot less well. Since you're only playing in your own group you could fudge this: pay for 6 bases but only deploy 4 and allow them to shoot 2 deep at full effect (and count them as broken when losing over two bases).
Types of figures. I don't think there'll be a problem here. FoG and MeG list writers have similar sources (and indeed Nik Gaukroger was heavily involved in both).
Some things to expect:
- the first games will be slow because it's a new rule set to you. Remember those first dozen games of FoG where you were flicking back and forth in the rulebook to try and find the relevant rule? That will happen. That's really just newness, though I'm told there are one or two quirks of rules layout (I'm fortunate to have learned with more experienced players).
- shooting occurs at a different point in the sequence to FoG, and people close to a charge can shoot at it.
- charging and movement is alternate by unit.
- the way generals work is different. Subordinate generals each have a command, and the commander in chief can do as well (or can just manage from afar). The quality of generals vary according to how much you pay for them. This affects what they can do through a card based mechanism (2-5 cards per general per turn). Getting the army structure and balance right is a skill that continues to elude me - "yet again, a better player is matador to my bull".
Quote from: ochoin on April 19, 2021, 12:01:50 AM
I have looked at the author playing a demo game involving Caesar & the Gauls:
https://mortem-et-gloriam.co.uk/meg/other-useful-videos/
There are positives but I was a bit repelled by it.
Don't worry, Simon has this effect on people. :-)
@ Graham
Thanks for the excellent advice.
I think Magna will be our preferred level: we simply don't have the extra bases needed ie 4 base cavalry as opposed to 6.
I think I will just bite the bullet & buy a Compendium box. If I learn the rules & umpire a game, it should bring the others on board.
They will make a commitment, buy the rules, learn the game & we'll be set!
So:or the meantime, I'm assuming a single Compendium has all the cards etc needed for a game?
donald
@Ochoin,
You just need to provide space, time and toys. The cards, markers and dice are all included in the box set :).
Enjoy!
Mike
Measuring sticks are useful. Easily made.
Charge markers are unfortunately not included in the box.
For measuring stick and wound/charge markers etc try LaserCraftArt, Geoff who runs it is a MeG player