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Mortem et Gloriam Army Lists => List Queries => Topic started by: LawrenceG on April 02, 2021, 12:56:43 PM

Title: Daylamites
Post by: LawrenceG on April 02, 2021, 12:56:43 PM
Given the description quoted in the list:
QuoteDailami were described by Agathias as "For they both discharge missiles from a distance when occasion arises and engage in hand to hand fighting, and they are expert at charging an
enemy phalanx and breaking its close-knit ranks with the weight of their charge."

I'm a bit surprised that the warriors are incapable of discharging missiles from a distance when the occasion arises. Shouldn't they have "experienced javelin"?

Title: Re: Daylamites
Post by: nikgaukroger on April 02, 2021, 02:29:03 PM
I think it was felt that emphasising the "expert at charging" bit was the best approach as this rather than any shooting was what defines them. That adding a shooting characteristic would also make them Missile Focused is also a factor.

If you were to add a shooting capability I would suggest that Unskilled Javelin would be more appropriate than Experienced as their shooting does not appear to have been a significant thing and more consistent with the description as a whole - but my feeling is that their shooting can be safely ignored as a separate thing, YMMV.

Title: Re: Daylamites
Post by: LawrenceG on April 02, 2021, 06:02:22 PM
My impression from that quote is distant combat is given the same prominence as hand to hand combat, but only the charge is singled out for something they are "expert" in. It was significant enough to get a mention, but unskilled javelin might be appropriate by analogy to the unskilled bow that some bow-armed hard-charging steppe cavalry get.

I note Scots Irish get normal warrior experienced javelin TUGs that are not good in HTH and a few "fierce warriors" that are dev charge but lose the javelin. Foederate Romans get experienced darts, and a charge combat capability.

I can see that one might not get good value for points from a shooting ability in a troop type that has to be restrained from charging once it gets within shooting range, also that occasions when shooting would be preferable and the opponent won't charge might be rare enough in practice that there is minimal game effect in not allowing them to shoot.

Mainly I don't like the cognitive dissonance of a capability being specifically mentioned in the notes and not reflected in the classification.

Title: Re: Daylamites
Post by: nikgaukroger on April 02, 2021, 06:04:06 PM
Quote from: LawrenceG on April 02, 2021, 06:02:22 PM
Mainly I don't like the cognitive dissonance of a capability being specifically mentioned in the notes and not reflected in the classification.

You'll get over it  ;)