Maximus Classical theme
Details to follow ...
Mortiem et Gloriam Rules, using all 2021 updates.
£35 per player, includes complementary Danish and hot drink each morning on arrival and pizza lunch.
Lists in by 18th October to madlemmey@hotmail.com
All armies should be painted to a reasonable standard, there will be a prize for the best painted too.
Open classical event.
10000 points. Classical pdf lists. Allies must be drawn from Classical lists too.
Tickets available at - https://www.boardsandswords.co.uk/products/derventio-iii-30th-31st-october-2021-mortem-et-gloriam-classical
Ticket purchased
Unfortunately, this event clashes with the Society of Ancients Conference this year.
Richard
Ticket purchased. First ever MEG tournament and very much looking forward to it.
Welcome on board, good event for your 1st tournament
I've bought a ticket too
Thanks, that's good to know. I've got a bit of painting to do between now and October. Fingers crossed.
Welcome, hope you enjoy it.
Lee Sanders can only do Sunday at Derventio if anyone wants two games on the Saturday?
Hi Will, any chance of a list of entrants.
Im travelling in October. I'm not sure if I will be back in time.
If I am, I may be available if you need an additional player to make it even.
Any recommendations on hotels ?
https://www.travelodge.co.uk/hotels/612/Derby-Cricket-Ground-hotel?WT.tsrc=email&WT.mc_id=REC_LEI_HOTEL_RECAPTUREFU&utm_source=redeye&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=REC_LEI_HOTEL_RECAPTUREFU&utm_content=ABANDON_FOLLOW_UP
Ian, you minded me. just booked
Thanks Ray - trying to sort out lift .... otherwise it's a 'no' ... shame it's classical ...
Quote from: IanN on September 28, 2021, 11:06:17 AM
Thanks Ray - trying to sort out lift .... otherwise it's a 'no' ... shame it's classical ...
I would offer but I'm saying 'till Monday and then going to Brum to visit my daughter at University
Ok hotel booked, who is list checker as I need to send it off before I change my mind again...
too late
and again
d*mn it!
Will says:
Lists in by 18th October to madlemmey@hotmail.com
Thanks Nik,
Ian, where are you travelling from?
W
Derventio runners so far
Me
Robin Spence
Cid
Paul Cummins
John Munro
Raymond Duggins
Nicholas Gaukroger
Jonathan Hargrave
Peter Entwistle
Jeremy HH
Roger Pitfield
Adrian Pitfield
Keith Spedding
Lee sanders (Sunday)
HAMMY
Stephen Stead
Phil Powell
David Parish
Matthew Haywood
Simon Cooper
Roger Whittam
Graham Willmott
Kevin Brewin
Mike Klaka
Peter Reilly
Kurt Jewkes
Jamie Mayers
Matthew Poole
29ish! Wow 8)
Ian, where are you travelling from?
W
>> Southampton/Fareham area. Tried couple of options for lift etc but now unlikely :'(
If anyone wants PSC sets can they give Manny at Boards and Swords a shout beforehand.
Thanks.
5 slots left. 27 entrants below.
Nik
John M
Ray
Paul
Robin
Cid
Jonathan (Mark?) Hargrave
Will (Sat) Lee (Sun)
Keith
Roger
Adrian
Jerry
Pete E
The War Doctor
Phillip Powell
Stephen Stead
Hammy
Kevin Brewin
Graham Wilmott
Roger Whittam
Simon Cooper
Matt Haywood
Matthew Poole
Jamie Mayers
Kurt Jewkes
Peter R
MIKE Klaka
27
That's one too few methinks. Problem solved ..... see y'all at the basho.
HH
Good man Hunter, thank you. 8)
Quote from: Hunter on October 19, 2021, 07:47:21 PM
That's one too few methinks. Problem solved ..... see y'all at the basho.
HH
Yes. See you soon!
25 out of 28 lists are in.
Last lists to madlemmey@hotmail(dot)com please
Just to clarify that I am not one of the shy 3. My list was submitted today and approved in double quick time by the basho boss.
Runners & Riders
(https://i.imgur.com/FSR8ZDE.png)
Not many hoplite armies for a classical theme.
Quote from: LawrenceG on October 22, 2021, 10:29:08 PM
Not many hoplite armies for a classical theme.
I remember a Spartan army at one Derventio and I took an Early Macedonian with Spartan ally once. I'm no expert but Hoplite armies have 5 main problems. They have low scouting in PBS, they're slow, they hate terrain, they're easy to outflank, long spear have to be in 2 ranks to get the factor. Those weaknesses tend to compound.
QuoteI'm no expert but Hoplite armies have 5 main problems. They have low scouting in PBS, they're slow, they hate terrain, they're easy to outflank, long spear have to be in 2 ranks to get the factor. Those weaknesses tend to compound.
Isn't that compensated for by the low cost of the troops?
Quote from: LawrenceG on October 24, 2021, 08:18:05 AM
QuoteI'm no expert but Hoplite armies have 5 main problems. They have low scouting in PBS, they're slow, they hate terrain, they're easy to outflank, long spear have to be in 2 ranks to get the factor. Those weaknesses tend to compound.
Isn't that compensated for by the low cost of the troops?
Not if you want to be anything other than +1 in impact and +1 in melee against foot.
Quote from: LawrenceG on October 24, 2021, 08:18:05 AM
QuoteI'm no expert but Hoplite armies have 5 main problems. They have low scouting in PBS, they're slow, they hate terrain, they're easy to outflank, long spear have to be in 2 ranks to get the factor. Those weaknesses tend to compound.
Isn't that compensated for by the low cost of the troops?
a formed close citizen hoplite costs 99 points and has to fight in 2 ranks to be effective, so in reality 198 points
an average drilled flex Legionary with Melee expert costs 108 points, can fight in terrain, does not need more than 1 rank in charge and melee
it gets worse if you compare the superior versions
drilled close superior hoplite 146 per base, 292 per file of two
drilled flex superior Legionary, 151 points per base
a slight caveat, the Hoplites do have the shove characteristic. Though in reality that just gilds the lily.
Quotea slight caveat, the Hoplites do have the shove characteristic. Though in reality that just gilds the lily.
You can't gild a lily unless you have a lily (i.e. a really good thing) to start with. I assume you mean it does not make a significant difference to effectiveness.
So we can look forward to a points reduction for hoplites next year, then?
Quote from: LawrenceG on October 24, 2021, 11:10:00 AM
Quotea slight caveat, the Hoplites do have the shove characteristic. Though in reality that just gilds the lily.
You can't gild a lily unless you have a lily (i.e. a really good thing) to start with. I assume you mean it does not make a significant difference to effectiveness.
So we can look forward to a points reduction for hoplites next year, then?
But they are great against mounted ..... so no points deduction
QuoteBut they are great against mounted ..... so no points deduction
I'm not sure that being great against troops you can't catch is worth a whole lot of points. And, apparently, nor is anyone else.
Classical might be a particularly foot-heavy theme, but hoplite armies were also conspicuous by their absence at LGT.
Quote from: LawrenceG on October 24, 2021, 02:32:29 PM
QuoteBut they are great against mounted ..... so no points deduction
I'm not sure that being great against troops you can't catch is worth a whole lot of points. And, apparently, nor is anyone else.
Classical might be a particularly foot-heavy theme, but hoplite armies were also conspicuous by their absence at LGT.
Byzantine list had long spear. Just not a "Hoplite" army. I've used long spear in my Dyke jumping army. Did pretty well and much copied. My army for Warfare will likely have some long spear. Just not a whole line of long spear stretched across the board. Jason at Cross & Crescent have 4 (?) TuGs of Long spear in his army.
We are in danger of conflating Long Spear and Hoplite army IMHO
So you are saying hoplite army is a "sour spot"* in the Long Spear ecosystem?
* or whatever the opposite of a "sweet spot" is.
I guess we'll have to see how Nik does with his 48 bases.
Quote from: LawrenceG on October 24, 2021, 03:07:34 PM
So you are saying hoplite army is a "sour spot"* in the Long Spear ecosystem?
* or whatever the opposite of a "sweet spot" is.
I guess we'll have to see how Nik does with his 48 bases.
Another example. African spearmen or whatever. Let's see how he gets on. Oh and all the other toys in his list.
I actually think massed spear is a good beginners army. I you can protect your flanks you won't get run down in two turns by anything.
Quote from: LawrenceG on October 24, 2021, 11:10:00 AM
Quotea slight caveat, the Hoplites do have the shove characteristic. Though in reality that just gilds the lily.
You can't gild a lily unless you have a lily (i.e. a really good thing) to start with. I assume you mean it does not make a significant difference to effectiveness.
So we can look forward to a points reduction for hoplites next year, then?
my argument was fantastic, are you suggesting its not Lily like?
Quotemy argument was fantastic, are you suggesting its not Lily like?
It may well be lily-like, but reducing its force with a counter-argument is not gilding it.
Quote from: LawrenceG on October 24, 2021, 05:33:53 PM
Quotemy argument was fantastic, are you suggesting its not Lily like?
It may well be lily-like, but reducing its force with a counter-argument is not gilding it.
"Polishing a turd" ???
Fourth Derventio. This is an ancients themed competition at Boards and Swords in Derby next weekend.
As is traditional, a wooden spoon.
(https://i.imgur.com/99sYtB1.jpg)
Thought these two fitted the theme!
(https://i.imgur.com/ucJ3j8n.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dzO3Bcq.jpg)
Quote from: LawrenceG on October 24, 2021, 05:33:53 PM
Quotemy argument was fantastic, are you suggesting its not Lily like?
It may well be lily-like, but reducing its force with a counter-argument is not gilding it.
? its not reducing the force, Shove makes them yet more expensive so countering your comment of low cost. Even without it the argument remains the same. Hence.... the gilding
caveat was in reference to its exitance and subsequent increase in cost but its compulsory for Hoplites so inclusive.
I interpreted the reference to "shove" as pointing out a capability that was advantageous in combat, so partially compensating for their otherwise poor performance.
This has drifted off-topic.
Not sure if moderators can move part of a topic to another sub-forum.
I'd start a new one on hoplite value for points, but I think we've about done it to death now.
Two errors, both my fault chaps.
Both to do with list dates:
Ray's list is 3-6CE
Nik's list is 300BCE, not 350CE (suspect an autofill error there).
Apologese all.
Will
What are the start times on both dates and likely finish time on Sunday?
09:00 shop will open, finish c 4 each day, hopefully
The draw
(https://i.imgur.com/QjUOURT.png)
Manny request we all wear masks apart from when eating and drinking, unless you have a valid reason not to. Hugs
Thank you everyone who came to play this weekend, and we all hope Jerry and Mark are feeling better soon.
Final results
(https://i.imgur.com/TtA1mSP.png)