MeG

Mortem et Gloriam Army Lists => List Queries => Topic started by: badhabum on December 20, 2020, 08:55:27 PM

Title: Komnenan Byz
Post by: badhabum on December 20, 2020, 08:55:27 PM
In the Nike lists, african has dissapeared . It comes back in Komnenan lists !

In nike lists, the skutatoï have LS and shieldwall but become short spear in the komnenan lists ..

Can someone explain what happened ?

I would like to have LS in the komnenan army ...yes I admit it  ;D but I wonder why they loose it and how they did regain african for cavalry ...

Title: Re: Komnenan Byz
Post by: nikgaukroger on December 21, 2020, 09:16:16 AM
IMO the Komnenan list is a bit of a mess and I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from it. Needs some unpicking and revisiting at some point - I nearly looked at it this year but in the end couldn't find the enthusiasm and doubt I will in the forseeable. One area it probably covers badly is the immediate post-Manzikert period where the army was not yet wrecked but was then ruined by the civil wars.

To the specifics I think the answers are the the Nikeforian no longer has the troops that get African in the earlier Byzantines lists, it's return in the Komnenan may be dubious. The infantry in the Komnenan period was, as far as I can see, not up to that of the earlier periods and LS would make them too useful.
Title: Re: Komnenan Byz
Post by: davidharvey1 on December 29, 2020, 03:40:02 PM
Working out this list is bedevilled by the sources, but at least we have some. To simplify, as you'll know, the previous tradition of military manuals is replaced largely by heroic biographic or by theologically inspired history, the negative nature of the crusader sources(sometimes justified by Norman military prowess), largely anti-Byzantine adds to the complexity, so vast unpicking. I have not tried to access Armenian or Arab sources yet.

Conclusions are clouded and imprecise. Religious art is becoming more useful and the view that much of it was anachronistic is much less strongly held and it may give a fair representation of Byzantine soldiery. Most of my research life is in the world of SMEs. I had promised myself to turn 20 years of interest in the Komnenians into a piece or two  for Slingshot, perhaps 2021 will be the year?

Title: Re: Komnenan Byz
Post by: nikgaukroger on December 29, 2020, 04:25:29 PM
Quote from: davidharvey1 on December 29, 2020, 03:40:02 PM
I had promised myself to turn 20 years of interest in the Komnenians into a piece or two  for Slingshot, perhaps 2021 will be the year?

Wouldn't go amiss IMO.
Title: Re: Komnenan Byz
Post by: badhabum on December 29, 2020, 07:15:01 PM
I must admit that sources are difficult to find so all that helps might be very usefull .