I'm trying to get my head around the allies/internal allies descriptions. Am I right in saying that an internal ally is one shown in the main army list and an ally would be the units taken from the separate army lists given.
Yes. Working out an internal ally force tends to be a bit more complex. So read the restrictions and the need for minimums carefully.
Often best to have an example done and explained.
If you tell us which army we might be able to do that.
Si
I think each internal needs to take at least 1/2 the minimums and these need to be assigned to her/him on the army list.
HH
I'm looking at a Late Republican Roman army with am Armenian ally.
So the Armenian ally is not an internal ally.
The Armenian ally is commanded by an Ally General who cannot be Legendary. Armenian generals have to be instinctive.
4 Armenian cavalry are compulsory. Normally the minimums for allies are halved but since the UG size is 4 or 6, you must take at least one TUG of Armenian cavalry. These can be upgraded to cataphracts subject to the normal maximums.
Armenian horse archers are also compulsory. Again the minimum is halved but because the UG size is 4 or 6, you must take at least one TUG of horse archers.
An ally contingent can have between 2 and 4 UGs, so you can choose to take two more UGs if you wish, subject to the normal maximums.
The Later Republican Roman army can take one internal ally. Again the ally must take between 2 and 4 UGs. The internal ally general must be professional as Roman generals must be professional. Again, he cannot be Legendary. The Later Republican Roman army has a minimum of 18 legionaries, so the ally must take at least 9. As the unit size is 4,6 or 8, this means that the ally must take at least 2 TuGs of legionaries. These legionaries could be upgraded as long as the total number of upgraded legionaries (in ally and main army) does not exceed 24.
No other troop types are compulsory. If you wanted to, the ally could command 4 TuGs of legionaries. The maximum an ally could command would be 32 (4 TuGs of 8).
The main army must also take at least 9 legionaries, again a minimum of 2 TuGs. Between the ally and the main army, none of the maximums can be exceeded.
Hope that is clear.
Richard
Ok so that's an external ally. Rules for them are the beginning of each list pack.
Must take 2-4 UGs.
Must take enough bases to be 1/2 the minimum in the Armenian list.
Can then make up other UGs from any.
So the list ha:
a) 4-18 bases of Armenian cavalry (which can be upgraded to cataphracts in that period) - so Maximus must have at least 1 TuG of of these.
b) 6-36 of horse archers - so again must be a SuG of at least 4, why not 6.
So sensible ally perhaps
2 x 4 Cataphracts
2 x 6 Horse Archers
Options: a) 3 cats/LH or vice versa, b) change one Cataphract to superior guard, c) makes cataphracts in 6s for a power version.
Si
PS if a internal ally its asinilar but the core army must first take the minimum, and then your allies the same as above up to hitting the maximum in total of any troop type.
I think I've got it. We use PACTO and one single base of figures equals one full unit. It works for us.
Yes ts fun. We play mainly pacto 28mm here at present.
So for Pacto you just have to pull the maxima and minima down before applying the ally rules.
2 2x2 Cats and 2x2 LH is a perfect ally. enjoy.
S
How does it work if you have multiple copies of the same Allie
So lowland Thracian with 2 or 3 highland Thracian allies, do the limits apply per ally or overall, so javelin men require you to take at least 9 in an ally (50% of 18-36), do you need to take the same in every ally or if one takes it are you compliant. Same for maximums do they apply per ally or across all allies.
For each ally.
Another internal Allie question if I may.
Se Gobi samaurai have bushiest ashiguru as 6-12. And units as 6 or 8 So as main force I have to take at least 6. If I take a unit of 6 my internal ally has to also take a unit of 6 to comply with the minimum. However if my main takes it as a unit of 8 Then my internal ally can not take any as we we would exceed the maximum. Is this correct or are you forced to take a unit of 6 in the main force.
The latter - allies make their selections from compulsory troops after the main army has taken the minimums of these. Item 3 in the section on internal allies at the front of each list book covers this.
Quote from: nikgaukroger on August 29, 2020, 06:48:28 AM
The latter - allies make their selections from compulsory troops after the main army has taken the minimums of these. Item 3 in the section on internal allies at the front of each list book covers this.
That is the key way to think of it.
Core army takes minimum troops first.
Do tha tin your army builder first. Then go from there.
Its one of those things that is very easy if you start in the right place...
... but could lead to many a "How do I get Dublin please? Well Sir, I wouldn't been starting from 'ere!" situations.