Just played Swiss versus Mid-Republican game. During the game, my opponent and I differed over what was a legal pass through move. It wasn't critical to the game and I moved on to be eventually drowned in a deluge of javelins.
In short, he believed that a SUG of Numidian cavalry could pass through a legionary TUG and vice versa during normal (prompted) movement. He based this interpretation on the fact that cavalry SUGs are not mentioned in either 9.3.H.5 (pass through moves allowed without causing KaB tests) or 9.3.H.6 (burst through moves).
I did not interpret the rules the same way. I interpreted the rules as saying that the only prompted pass through moves allowed are those in 9.3.H.5. The moves listed in 9.3.H.6 are not prompted moves and so are not relevant in this case. In effect, only infantry SUGs (generally) can move through and be moved through at will without repercussions.
We would appreciate a ruling from the gurus please.
Cheers,
Steve
It could be me carrying interpretations from FOGN, where anything can interpenetrate anything, albeit with a test that causes a morale drop if failed (equivalent of a KaB test)
P108 H
Clause 1. says "At times TuGs and SuGs may pass through friends. Sometimes these interpenetrations are prompted actions under your control, other ...."
Clause 3. states "If allowed as a prompted action:" and specifies conditions, including UG needing movement to be able to completely pass through, though a TuG can effectively shove a SuG back
Clause 5. notes a number of moves that are allowed without causing a KaB
Clause 6. specifies when a KaB occurs
The ultimate question is "What is an allowed prompted action?"
This is undefined, so the question is effectively "Are those interpenetrations specified in Clause 5 the only interpenetrations allowed other than forced interpenetrations due to outcome moves?"
If the answer is yes, then I made an error, and then I would suggest that Clause 1 could be changed to read "At times TuGs and SuGs may pass through friends. Sometimes these interpenetrations are prompted actions under your control, and these are defined in the following paragraph 5, other ...."
It was ultimately a risk, as when they skirmished back they then caused the appropriate KaB
There are two types of passing through friends. Those allowed as prompted actions (moves) not causing KaBs, and those caused by outcomes which may cause KaBs.
Only those mentioned in 5 and 6 are allowed. 5 without KaBs as prompted action. 6 as outcomes causing KaBs.
In addition to 5 from memory we have anything through Battlewagons in line and some lists allows archers to pass through foot troops and vice versa - HYW English perhaps and Egyptian (check the latest lists).
The rules in general tell you all that you can do.
S
Does this apply to prompted charges. So can I prompt my elephants to charge through my Skirmish infantry in front. Even pushing the infantry back to make room if needed.
Hi Simon
Fair enough, the answer then is "yes". and I made an error (so the Cavalry SuG should have been moved first, then the infantry after it) that's fine
I would suggest that clause 1 then needs editing in the next rewrite that it is under certain conditions that TuGs and SuGs can interpenetrate, as the wording does imply that it is available to all but with some conditions having a risk.
This is not a problem for veteran MEG players, but definitely a problem for new starters, and for those who play other rules as well as these ones
Cheers
Thanks Simon - in this case I interpreted you correctly and thought you were pretty clear. That said, that other players, including one of the Australian 'guns', didn't read it the same way indicates there might be a need for clarification. I suggest your comment above would be a useful one to add.
As for Mark's charging elephant question, I have played it as no, you cannot charge through any troops except for burst through charges. You would first need to move the skirmishers out of the way. This is different to some other rule sets I've used. However, you do have the opportunity to prompt the skirmishers to move out of the way immediately before prompting the charge (2.1).
Exactly so. So it sends a command and control challenge to screening.
I can add to the common questions next week.
S