Simon,
I have also posted this on the Renatio forum as it applies to both sets of lists.
Could you explain why the term "Honjin" is used to describe household troops in the lists, please?
I was under the impression that Honjin referred to a high quality inn reserved for the use of Daimyo and which often served as their field headquarters building. A detailed explanation can be read here:
https://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index.php?title=Honjin
Surely a more correct term would be "Hatamoto" for these troops. (Whilst I have numerous other descriptions from texts - this one from Osprey is easy to cut and paste as its online! :D)
"Each great samurai daimyo had a division of troops known as the Hatamoto, 'those who stand under the flag'. The Hatamoto included the personal bodyguards, the senior generals, the standard bearers and colour-guard, the couriers, and the other samurai under the warlord's personal command. Apart from bodyguard and other duties in immediate attendance on the daimyo, both horse and foot guards often played crucial roles in battle. Their intervention could turn defeat into victory, and their collapse meant certain defeat. All the three great leaders of the 16 and 17th centuries - including Oda, Hideyoshi and Tokugawa - had their own elite corps."
I am confused, where do we use the term Honjin in the ancient Samurai lists?
Richard
We don't, it just appears in the ReG ones - I think an assumption has been made :(
Apologies - you are correct.
I had assumed some consistency between lists covering the same time period which appear in both rule sets.
I now see that they are not consistent and that the Samurai list in Renato is much more granular. I note that in MeG Hatamoto units do not exist, whatever you choose to call them :(
Maybe the list writers in MrG and Ren should get their heads together?
Quote from: Nick2729 on July 10, 2020, 07:55:27 AM
Apologies - you are correct.
I had assumed some consistency between lists covering the same time period which appear in both rule sets.
I now see that they are not consistent and that the Samurai list in Renato is much more granular. I note that in MeG Hatamoto units do not exist, whatever you choose to call them :(
Maybe the list writers in MrG and Ren should get their heads together?
Indeed, when ReG is formally issued then we will need to ensure consistency. As ReG has not yet reached that point, we haven't gone through that exercise. There are a few ancient lists which really belong in the ReG set of lists (the 16th century Japanese lists and in the Americas, Southern Mapuche for example).
Richard
Thanks Richard - completely understand. The later Samurai period is always a difficult one as it essentially crosses both periods styles of warfare and doesn't fit either perfectly.
We'll crack on with MeG Samurai until such time as Ren is ready. :)
Quote from: lionheartrjc on July 10, 2020, 08:51:24 AM
Quote from: Nick2729 on July 10, 2020, 07:55:27 AM
Apologies - you are correct.
I had assumed some consistency between lists covering the same time period which appear in both rule sets.
I now see that they are not consistent and that the Samurai list in Renato is much more granular. I note that in MeG Hatamoto units do not exist, whatever you choose to call them :(
Maybe the list writers in MrG and Ren should get their heads together?
Indeed, when ReG is formally issued then we will need to ensure consistency. As ReG has not yet reached that point, we haven't gone through that exercise. There are a few ancient lists which really belong in the ReG set of lists (the 16th century Japanese lists and in the Americas, Southern Mapuche for example).
Richard
Hopefully I wont lose a list after so many years though right? ie grandfather my Mapuche!
I thought Hatamoto" was title representong personal standing with the Daimyo (and in particular the right to a direct audience), rather than an elite status soldier?
And although there is no fundamental reason they couldn't be grouped together in battle, a) not all Hatamoto were accomplished warriors; b) often they were senior figures in allied/subject clans, who I would expect in many cases to be leading their own troops.