Hi,
A question on M2.1 page 132.
It is said « it may align 1bw in movement to create a single base with frontal melee combat »
How do you do such alignment? Is that free? Do you just shift the unit from corner to corner to frontal contact ?
All the other option proposed you need to pay this is why I wonder.
Thanks for your explanation.
Align moves are free - you just shift the UG to make the required frontal combat.
The other options are paid for as they create additional advantages such as fighting the melee with the +2 claim - if they were free they would be of too great a benefit..
Thx Nick.
Free alignment could be done prior charge combat, before any move, before any melee.
It means that if you are corner to corner once charge is done you can then align to be in frontal fight during the charge phase, right?
It would appear so - aligning can be done at 2.7 in the Charge Phase after charge moves, etc. have been made.
This throws up an interesting question about what are "charge combats" ...
I think two games concepts are getting mixed up here.
An alignment is up to, but not including, 1BW. So troops that start in corner to corner contact cannot align (9.5 B 5).
Aligning to engage in melee when already in contact is only permitted during the movement phase (9.4 M).
So if you are only in corner to corner contact you cannot align prior to charge combat - only in the movement phase. I think this solves your problem.
Richard
Different section applies to Rino's question - 9.4 M 2.1 on page 132.
9.5 B5 mentions the not including 1 BW is to stop sliding a base width when already aligned.
What question am I missing?
Page 132 9.4 M 2.1 is only allowed in the movement phase to initiate a melee combat so cannot be used to align in the charge phase.
Aligning when in combat is only allowed up to but not including 1BW, so if you are in corner-to-corner contact only, you cannot use this to align.
Richard
Quote from: lionheartrjc on June 21, 2020, 04:32:32 PM
What question am I missing?
Page 132 9.4 M 2.1 is only allowed in the movement phase to initiate a melee combat so cannot be used to align in the charge phase.
Aligning when in combat is only allowed up to but not including 1BW, so if you are in corner-to-corner contact only, you cannot use this to align.
Richard
Is correct and the intent.
That section on page 132 is very specific. It is about creating an ongoing melee when already too close to ever charge by an
exception to normal rules. It has no relation to anything else in the rules therefore and is a specific set of exception - note MF1 move wouldn't normally be allowed either as technically not in combat at the time. Once it being under its own section M.
It just gives three specific ways to crate a melee from two TuGs that are so close that it would be quite viable to do so if anybody wanted to to do so. Diagram and section titles makes it very clear I believe. Don't think to hard beyond what is there.
Si
PS And yes I could have maybe found another word that align (1 base slide) for the movement to the left. But the best of rule lawyers out there are impossible to fully foil ;)
Quote from: lionheartrjc on June 21, 2020, 04:32:32 PM
What question am I missing?
Page 132 9.4 M 2.1 is only allowed in the movement phase to initiate a melee combat so cannot be used to align in the charge phase.
Aligning when in combat is only allowed up to but not including 1BW, so if you are in corner-to-corner contact only, you cannot use this to align.
Richard
You're not missing anything but I did.
Even read it through twice to make sure I was right - incompetence cannot be ruled out :P ::)
Hi,
Again on the engaging in melee when already in contact page 132.
Should the Gallic be already engaged with Roman unit A, would a Roman unit B be able to get in position on the flanc of the gallic?
In the schematic the gallic unit isn't engaged by any enemy originally. I want to make sure how this is to be played prior being challenged on this point of rule during a tournament.
Thanks in advance
Cheers
Which is unit A and which is unit B?
To charge you cannot be in front edge or corner contact with the enemy UG. So the Roman units would have to move to a valid position in which to flank charge, prior to charging in the following turn. Given the restrictions on UGs moving <=2 or <=4 BW from enemy, this isn't easy.
Hi Richard,
Here a picture to make it clearer.
G is already fighting against A.
B is corner to corner with G.
Can B at the movement phase position itself on the flanc and fight in melee as per p132?
Does the fact that G is already fighting against A matter at all?
(https://i.postimg.cc/r0bHKkB7/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/r0bHKkB7)
B has a supporting file so is already in the fight.
G can use an MF1 action to move unengaged base(s) to contact B frontally.
If G hasn't done this (or B player acts first), then B can move away from G. What it cannot do is just wheel onto the flank by an M3 action. (Page 132. 9.4.M.1 forbids this).
Hope this is clear.
Richard.
Hi Richard,
Thanks for your answer.
Should the situation be slightly different.
B in that case isn't fighting as overlap.
Could it do the M3 move to come on the flank on G?
(https://i.postimg.cc/zLDjvxJY/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zLDjvxJY)
Looking at the exemples pg 132 YES they may
Quote from: Simon Meg-Meister on June 21, 2020, 04:54:15 PM
Quote from: lionheartrjc on June 21, 2020, 04:32:32 PM
What question am I missing?
Page 132 9.4 M 2.1 is only allowed in the movement phase to initiate a melee combat so cannot be used to align in the charge phase.
Aligning when in combat is only allowed up to but not including 1BW, so if you are in corner-to-corner contact only, you cannot use this to align.
Richard
Is correct and the intent.
That section on page 132 is very specific. It is about creating an ongoing melee when already too close to ever charge by an exception to normal rules. It has no relation to anything else in the rules therefore and is a specific set of exception - note MF1 move wouldn't normally be allowed either as technically not in combat at the time. Once it being under its own section M.
It just gives three specific ways to crate a melee from two TuGs that are so close that it would be quite viable to do so if anybody wanted to to do so. Diagram and section titles makes it very clear I believe. Don't think to hard beyond what is there.
Si
PS And yes I could have maybe found another word that align (1 base slide) for the movement to the left. But the best of rule lawyers out there are impossible to fully foil ;)
Sorry I am lost in translation
Quoteso if you are in corner-to-corner contact only, you cannot use this to align
So what aboutpg 132 M 2.1 where an UG is in front corner only contact with an enemy front corner :
- It may align 1 BW in movement to create a single base width frontal melee combat blablabla
And the exemples do seem clear so I am now lost with the "you cannot use this to align" ?
Quote from: Rino on September 12, 2021, 01:16:42 PM
Hi Richard,
Thanks for your answer.
Should the situation be slightly different.
B in that case isn't fighting as overlap.
Could it do the M3 move to come on the flank on G?
(https://i.postimg.cc/zLDjvxJY/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zLDjvxJY)
Yes, the difference being it is not in combat.
Richard
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZB19BJ4c/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZB19BJ4c)
Looks like I have learnt something new. Damn, that means now I have to forget something.
So just confirming that if B was up to 1 BW further forward then it couldn't make an M9 turn move on to the flank of G, as it is already in a position to fight as an overlap?
Yes.
Quote from: badhabum on September 12, 2021, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: Simon Meg-Meister on June 21, 2020, 04:54:15 PM
Quote from: lionheartrjc on June 21, 2020, 04:32:32 PM
What question am I missing?
Page 132 9.4 M 2.1 is only allowed in the movement phase to initiate a melee combat so cannot be used to align in the charge phase.
Aligning when in combat is only allowed up to but not including 1BW, so if you are in corner-to-corner contact only, you cannot use this to align.
Richard
Is correct and the intent.
That section on page 132 is very specific. It is about creating an ongoing melee when already too close to ever charge by an exception to normal rules. It has no relation to anything else in the rules therefore and is a specific set of exception - note MF1 move wouldn't normally be allowed either as technically not in combat at the time. Once it being under its own section M.
It just gives three specific ways to crate a melee from two TuGs that are so close that it would be quite viable to do so if anybody wanted to to do so. Diagram and section titles makes it very clear I believe. Don't think to hard beyond what is there.
Si
PS And yes I could have maybe found another word that align (1 base slide) for the movement to the left. But the best of rule lawyers out there are impossible to fully foil ;)
Sorry I am lost in translation
Quoteso if you are in corner-to-corner contact only, you cannot use this to align
So what aboutpg 132 M 2.1 where an UG is in front corner only contact with an enemy front corner :
- It may align 1 BW in movement to create a single base width frontal melee combat blablabla
And the exemples do seem clear so I am now lost with the "you cannot use this to align" ?
Hi, try this
Richard states that 'Aligning when in combat is only allowed up to but not including 1BW, so if you are in corner-to-corner contact only, you cannot use this to align.'
Simon then says this 'Is correct and the intent.' but then goes on to say that section on p132 is an exception to the normal rules to cover a very specific set of situations.
so if you meet the criteria on p132 you CAN align, in the alignment section of the movement phase, a full base width to create a combat as its an exception to the normal align rules
at least that is my understanding of all of the above.
Ok I think I got it