MeG

Mortem et Gloriam Army Lists => List Queries => Topic started by: nikgaukroger on June 15, 2020, 08:45:28 AM

Title: Imperial Roman lanciarii
Post by: nikgaukroger on June 15, 2020, 08:45:28 AM
Mentioned this somewhere else a bit back and finally remembered to post here.

In the C3rd CE the legions included troops called lanciarii who, from grave stelae, were equipped with multiple javelins possibly held in a quiver. Detail on how they operated in pretty non-existent, however, it is reasonably speculated that they could act as skirmishers (maybe supported by some of Vegetius) or more missile focused troops. Evidence from the late C3rd/early C4th from Egypt shows them as being in their own formations.

Wondering how they could be included in the lists.

An option maybe that they are given weapon and characteristic stats like auxilia, but are Experienced shooters. Another might be that they are classified rather like the Hellenistic Euzenoi. A more radical suggestion might be that they are Flexibles with a Special Rule that means they flex to Skirmisher - but that may be going a bit far and stretching what we know too much.
Title: Re: Imperial Roman lanciarii
Post by: RobAustin on June 17, 2020, 03:09:47 PM
I had sort of assumed these were just included in the Integral Archer characteristic.

I suppose they could be a base or two added to a Legion TuG, but how to use them? One thought could be that they are the bases lost first from shooting (regardless of where they are in the unit it is assumed they move to interpose themselves between missile threats). So, while they still count for break point of the TuG and are targeted no differently, they are a much cheaper base to lose. ?
Title: Re: Imperial Roman lanciarii
Post by: lionheartrjc on June 17, 2020, 03:18:31 PM
My preference would be to classify them as   Skirmisher, Protected, Short Spear, Experienced Javelin, optional Melee Expert, Shoot & Charge.  I would allow a maximum of 1 per 3 legionaries.

Richard
Title: Re: Imperial Roman lanciarii
Post by: RobAustin on June 17, 2020, 05:00:59 PM
Quote from: lionheartrjc on June 17, 2020, 03:18:31 PM
My preference would be to classify them as   Skirmisher, Protected, Short Spear, Experienced Javelin, optional Melee Expert, Shoot & Charge.  I would allow a maximum of 1 per 3 legionaries.

Richard

Seems reasonable. They then become a bit like the Velites in their superiority to other skirmishers, but no threat to formed troops.
Title: Re: Imperial Roman lanciarii
Post by: nikgaukroger on June 17, 2020, 09:12:44 PM
Quote from: lionheartrjc on June 17, 2020, 03:18:31 PM
My preference would be to classify them as   Skirmisher, Protected, Short Spear, Experienced Javelin, optional Melee Expert, Shoot & Charge.  I would allow a maximum of 1 per 3 legionaries.

Richard

I'd be happy with that.

They are still in existence in the reign of Diocletian so would also appear in the earlier part of the Imperial Roman list.