In the Medieval Polish lists we have TuGs of mixed Charging Lancer (Rycerz) and Crossbow Shoot & Charge cavalry (Strzelcy).
Under the MEG Compendium rules, these are subject to forced charges (because the charging lancer troops do not have a missile weapon).
Is this appropriate or should we change the classification to allow mixed formations where the Rycerz are both Charging Lancer and Crossbow, Shoot & Charge cavalry? This would make the TuG missile focused and it will have to pay to charge.
Is there any information in the sources on how the Polish knights fought? Would welcome the views of anyone who knows more about the history of this period.
Richard
Matt Haywood would be good to contact - I think a lot of the information on Poles for the lists ultimately came from him although transmitted through other lists first perhaps.
Quote from: nikgaukroger on June 10, 2020, 09:42:54 AM
Matt Haywood would be good to contact - I think a lot of the information on Poles for the lists ultimately came from him although transmitted through other lists first perhaps.
Matt was kind enough to send me a paper on a range of eastern armies which provided input for some of these lists.
Richard
In the case of the Poles I think the Forced Charge remaining valid is OK. I don't think the nobles would feel constrained by their missils support troops, who have Shoot & Charge anyway so they are not totally reliant on shooting. Note that in no way am I advocating for a free charge. As Nik observed, I think it is pretty powerful.
Quote from: daveparish on June 11, 2020, 09:44:33 AM
<snip> On the history - why did the Poles include crossbows with knights? My naive idea was they softened up the opponent with fire and then charged (which would support a free charge) but maybe they went for it pell-mell and the crossbows just added extra sting to the charge (which would support a forced charge). I know it's not just all about the Poles but it's an example of what you are trying to represent with this combination of TUG formation and the rules
As far as I can find out, Polish tactics was for the knights to lead with the "shooters" (although classified as crossbow, some may have had bows or even arquebus) following behind. I am not sure that there was much shooting during the charge. I think it is more likely that the knights disrupted the enemy formation and the shooter behind took a shot at point-blank range before drawing a sword. Overall I think the effect of the mixed TuGs is fine.
On occasions the "shooters" were deployed on the wings, hence the Medieval Polish having the option to mix or not.
Unless I find evidence to the contrary I will keep the classification the same.
At the end of the period, I think they had alternating banners of knights and crossbow, but not sure there would be any different game effect.